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this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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as usual, the Palestinian death toll is now at least 5 times higher than the Israeli death toll and Israel isn't done yet
Don't lose sight of who the aggressor is.
It's a poorly equipped terrorist group fighting against a full fleged national military force. If the current death toll is only 5 times higher for Hamas, they really chaught Isreal off guard with that attack.
Did u not see the map? Israel has been eliminating Palestine for decades and tiny Palestine is the big bad guy here, according to you?
Some of the people all of the time, I guess
Did you respond to the wrong comment?
Both sides have been trying to "eliminate" each other for decades. It's just Israel is winning.
It generally makes no sense to talk about "good" or "bad" in international politics.
But let's look at it from this way: There is no possibility of a Palestinian victory by military means and there hasn't been in a long time. Yet, everytime there was peace process it get's rejected by Palestine and they cling to their demand of the total destruction if Israel.
At this point fighting Israel is just fighting for the sake of fighting, inflicting suffering on Israel and martyrdom.
Israel isn't going anywhere. So in a realistic sense it's on Palestine to come to the negotiation table and settle for peace (and yes, the condition are now much worse then in 1993). Or they can choose to fight a lost cause ... to the death.
Look at anither way. England gave half of Palestine to their enemies...why should Palestine have agreed to any of this in the first place? Oh that's right they didn't and this was shoved down their throats. Some would say illegally.
Palestine basically paid for what the Germans did to the Jews.
This is a chart that shows one thing only: Israel has the stronger military.
It doesn’t say a thing about who attempted to kill more civilians, and who took steps to avoid civilian deaths. It doesn’t say anything about who has made concessions for peace, and who has walked away from peace deals for almost a century.
The chart shows military might. It doesn’t show intent. It doesn’t show who tried to avoid bloodshed. It doesn’t show who ignited conflict after conflict.
A similar chart showing civilian deaths in WWII would show the US killed way more Nazi civilians than vice versa. Would you be arguing that the US was the bad guy in that war?
This is only true because Israel is good at stopping attacks, not because Hamas isn’t trying.
Graph "intentional attacks" targeted at civilians and you’ll get a very different picture. Personally, if someone tried to murder my family but failed, I wouldn’t find them blameless just because they didn’t succeed.
Also missing from the picture is that for decades Hamas has been using Palestinian civilians as human shields, building bombs and rockets in the houses where children live, shooting rockets from inside schools and hospitals.
Hamas gave Israel the choice of letting it’s own children die, and not shooting back, or shooting back and Knowing that no matter how hard they tried (and they try pretty fucking hard) that they wouldn’t be able to avoid civilian deaths.
And ALL of this was because Hamas was banking on people in the west doing exactly what this gullible sap is doing: assuming that Israel is the monster.
Let’s see a chart of the number of attempted murders of civilians from each side. That’ll paint a pretty different picture.
Tell me, because we both know that the Israeli casualty number is only low because Israel is good at protecting its citizens and not because Hamas isn’t trying to kill as many Israelis as it can, do you really think the situation would be better if Hamas was more successful at killing Israelis?
And to the exact same point, one side being less successful at killing citizens doesn’t make them right either.
I mean, definitionally Hamas is the aggressor here. The force Israel has traditionally employed in response is nowhere near proportional or responsible, but they have rarely been the inciter in large-scale armed conflicts.
Bombast and hyperbole don't win you arguments or minds on topics like this. Let the atrocities of Israel's violent apartheid speak for themselves, free of embellishment.
So what you're saying is Israel has killed over 4000 Palestinians this decade, including 200 this year prior to this attack, and Palestine launches a counter-attack that leaves 40 dead, and because Palestine retaliated to initial attacks they are now the aggressor "definitionally"? Is the only way to not be labeled the aggressor to soak up every single death at the hands of apartheid in stride?
If you take 10 punches and then throw 1, you are not the aggressor and for anyone to suggest such is for them to side with the aggressor.
Not to mention, I'm having a hard time imagining someone saying "[Israel has] rarely been the inciter in large-scale armed conflicts" while simultaneously looking at the map of Israel carving up the Palestinian homeland to shreds.
When a fight stops and then you lob rockets at civilians years later, that’s a new conflict. This isn’t difficult to put together.
Ah yes, the famously stopped Israel/Palestine conflict. You're right, I forgot that they had declared a ceasefire some time after the last Israeli raid on Palestine "years" ago, back in July 2023, where they sent thousands of troops, drones, and missiles into Jenin.
Palestine has been occupied since how long? Israeli aggression never ended.
Did you know Israel is blockading Gaza?
I don't really see how that's relevant, here. It's horrible; however, it's also not relevant to whether or not Hamas started a new discrete conflict (they did).
Do you think there is an ongoing conflict if Israel is maintaining a blockade of Gaza?
A blockade is an act of WAR. By any definition. There's no "new" conflict. War doesn't just "reset" because you say so.
War requires two states. Palestine isn’t one.
And the Cognitive Dissonance Award goes to...
Israel is an illegal occupying force. As such they are inherently always the aggressor.
Ok antisemite. Israel is defending itself from terrorists.
Abusing the term antisemitism to deflect criticism from an apartheid regime is disgusting.