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Moment Israeli airstrike hits Gaza tower block after Hamas attack – video
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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Israeli civilian deaths from this attack—which again, was actively, intentionally targeted at civillians—were 250. IIRC, the latest number of Palestinian deaths, including combatants, in 2023, is "over 200."
But I wasn't talking about numbers. I was talking about intent, effort, strategy. Yes, some Palestinian civilians do die as a result of attacks by Israel. Israel tends to be better at protecting its civilians, Hamas intentionally puts its civilians in harm's way. Yes, to some extent, the numbers reflect that.
And by the way, there are also Palestinians dying to friendly fire caused by haphazard rocket fire.
And I said by the time this recent escalation ends. Meaning that this end won't be today as the retaliation of Israel is currently ongoing and surprise surprise civilian casualties numbers are not going to be updated immediately.
Do you really believe that there won't be any retaliation strikes from Israel that won't involve civilian deaths on the Palestinian side? Because if you do you are a fool!
Again not defending Hamas, just saying that seeing only one side of the conflict and what their wrongdoings are isn't the best approach in this case.
I didn't say that.
I really don't think Israel will target any civilians. Some rogue IDF soldiers have done so in the past, but it's rare and generally punished quite quickly.
I can't say which side will suffer more civilian casualties, but I know that Hamas's goal is to cause as many as possible, and Israel is making very active efforts to cause as few as possible. The fact that Israel is well-equipped to defend itself and Hamas doesn't feel like it will, inevitably, skew the statistics.
Oh so your point is that Israeli civilian casualties matter more, right? Plus provide me with any proof that IDF soldiers are really trialed and effectively put into prison with effective sentences.
Plus the whole fact that Israel is not a member of the ICC speaks volumes about their human rights track record https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/arabs-israel-stay-sidelines-raging-democracy-battle-2023-07-26/#:~:text=While%20Israel%20says%20it%20grants,more%20than%20three%20times%20higher.
Plus it is not like Israeli politicians are not complicit by inciting racial hatred by stating that certain Palestinian villages must be erased or by continually expanding the Israeli settlements in disputed territories. So I don't know for you but in my books that's not exactly screaming actively looking for a peaceful solution to the problem. You should also check what pretty much every independent human rights watch group has to say about the issue.
Again not defending any civilian casualties and I wish both parties were actually looking to resolve this problem in a peaceful manner through diplomatic channels. Unfortunately that boat departed, after the Oslo accord, there are no real attempts to reconcile instead things seem to be getting worse every year with no hope in sight.
I don't appreciate the way you're intentionally dodging my point and then intentionally mischaracterizing it.
My point is that Hamas is trying to increase the count of civilian casualties on both sides, and the IDF is trying to decrease civilian casualties on both sides.
You're just counting the victims. Look at the perpetrators for just a second.
does it? How so?
There are a few Israeli extremists who say shit like this. They're monsters. The vast majority do not speak like this. As opposed to the majority members of the Palestinian Authority. A majority of the PA is literally members of Hamas, truly committed to the deaths all Israelis and all Jews they can get their hands on, as evidenced not only by their charter but by their actions.
Unfortunately, the current majority in Israel is not interested in enforcing rules against expanding settlements. That does suck. But the bulk of the minority—which is likely to take control in the next election, unless this crisis changed things—is very willing to reign in settlements.
You are missing the point, I have defended my thesis with a couple of facts and even provided a link, your point is only based on assumptions and you failed to deliver any verifiable fact.
I have asked you to provide any verifiable link of convicted IDF soldiers, but you did not.
Anything to say about the Jenin refugee camp, do you think using excessive violence there was justifiable? https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/07/1138487
Have you ever wondered why Israel is not a member of the ICC, or which other countries are not part and why? Because they don't want to be held accountable for their army's war crimes.
And maybe some more food for thoughts:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/02/un-experts-say-israel-should-be-held-accountable-acts-domicide
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/04/israel-50-years-occupation-abuses
https://www.globalr2p.org/countries/israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territory/
If the link you presented had anything to do with the paragraph you presented in, I absolutely missed it, can you please draw the connection for me?
I missed that.
https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/IDF-soldier-convicted-of-killing-Gaza-rioter-606298
That's the first one I could find, I'm busy, what with it being Simchat Torah in the diaspora.
Well, you begged the question there, and I'm not intimately familiar with the situation, but from what I understand, not particularly, no.
No. I never cared. I don't know why Israel would subject itself to any kind of international jurisdiction, with the way the international community treats it. Have you seen how obsessed the UN securuity council is with Israel, while it ignores human rights violations everywhere else in the world? Why the fuck would we want to invite more of that?
I just looked it up, Israel stated its reasons, it objects to the language about population transfer: https://press.un.org/en/1998/19980720.l2889.html. I'm sure you have a much more conspiratorial reason in mind?
And I'm familiar with fucking Amnesty International and HRW, I'm not living under a rock.