236
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
236 points (59.3% liked)
Memes
45902 readers
1420 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
ho boy, here we go again.
At this point in time that conflict has been going on for so long, I have no clue anymore who started it. So all I can do is judge both sides by their current actions without historical justification which, to me, results in fanatical religious fascists fighting fanatical religious fascists with neither side caring for civilian casualties. Not exactly a situation in which I'd support any side tbh.
Thank you. There's way too many people claiming one or the other side is justified or worse and frankly at this point they've both committed so many atrocities against one another that it's hard to have an emotional or subjective response other than, they're both pretty shitty.
Also just looking at history isn't going to solve anything. If that was the only solution we can just get any map remove all borders everywhere and discus how to draw them based on history. We all know this is just going to be a never ending discussion because it just depends on what snapshot in time (of the world) you take as your truth.
You know very well who started it. You just want to pretend that historical facts are lost to the sands of time because they're damaging to your centrist bullshit.
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-184195/
Just out of curiosity what do you think should happen? Should Israel just give up the land to Palestinians? Should Palestinians give up the land to Israel? Should they coexist and if so how do you see that happening? I really am asking because I really don't understand how "how it started" is going to make a peaceful ending. I also don't understand why anyone who isn't from the locality and impacted by it should be stepping in for either side of what amounts to civil war. Especially not America who has a habit of doing so all over the world which usually ends badly for the people who live there when our puppet regimes tank.
Israeli settlers should return to the country that they or their family came from originally. This is not like settlers in the America's where we are talking 200+ years of families living there. This started after WW2 when the bigoted west could not bear to live with jews even after the holocaust, so they had to send them off on a settler project to other lands. Palestinian lands. Israelis should go back home, and the places they came from should pay for the reestablishing of their families. As well as paying reparations to Palestine. Isreal is not a legitimate nation. It is a colonial project occupying the nation of Palestine and the settlers must leave if there is to be peace.
"Israeli settlers should return to the country that they or their family came from originally."
Oh? How far back are we going here? What if their family originally came from Palestine? What happens then?
"This is not like settlers in the America's where we are talking 200+ years of families living there." This is an interesting point that is literally under contention right now because those people came from somewhere and we don't even know who was here first because it changes every few years. How many years of settling constitute the land belonging to you?
Where did the Israeli people actually first come from. Go back far enough and crazily enough I think you'll find that these people do have historical roots in this locality before WW2. This conflict spans probably close to a thousand years. Picking and choosing which bit of history supports your narrative doesn't invalidate the rest of it.
You are being ridiculous by pretending that Israel in antiquity is at all relevant to the current colonial project that was started within living memory. If the families originally came from Palestine then the people are Palestinian regardless of whatever ethnostate bullshit the settler government might have spouted to blur the lines. I am saying that any settler families who have gone to occupy Palestine in the last 80 years should return to their home nations. Anyone else is Palestinian, whether muslim, jewish, or otherwise. And would stay to live under the Palestinian nation.
Why do you think this is a peaceful resolution? Why do you think those other countries will just open their arms and take back Israel's? They don't have home nations if they were born in Palestine.
This war is fueled by what amount to a religious disagreement. Pretending it's not is kind of a garbage take and pretending it's as easy as just send those people home is also garbage. You don't see it that way because you're looking at historical context of the last 100 years on purpose.
This is the equivalent of the movement in America who want to end birthright citizenship. It doesn't make sense and it's specifically tied to anti-immigration sentiment that ignores that essential the US is made up of immigrants. It's similar to pretending Columbus discovered America when we know the Vikings were here before him and the Natives before them and so on.
Like. I'm not pro Israel. I actually think this is a conflict that can't be one and both sides are wrong. But you seem to have drawn your line in the sand and therefore this conversation is over.
The current status quo of apartheid and genocide is not exactly leading to a peaceful resolution is it? Why must Palestinian survival and liberation be entirely bloodless? And why can settlers not leave without bloodshed?
Luckily the settlers have had decades of looting Palestine, so they could afford to leave if necessary. An option that the Palestinian people have been denied by the exploitation and literal encirclement under apartheid.
They have settled within living memory and know very well where they came from.
No the war is fueled by the continued expansion of a colonial ethnostate which is genociding the native population. You are the one spewing ahistorical garbage. ~~You said as much in your top comment when you admitted to having no knowledge of the situations history.~~ Edit- Sorry, I confused you with the first person, who claimed memory issues to pretend history started on Saturday. The rest of the point stands.
You previously wanted to dilute the issue by examining things as far back as antiquity. Now you want to throw out historical analysis from the relevant time period because it's inconvenient? Do you have any ideas at all or will you simply say whatever is required?
This is not equivalent at all. Israeli settlers are currently genociding the native population. Whereas in America the current population are settlers who have nearly finished their genocide. Current immigrants to America are not genociding the population. How is that a take you just seriously put forward? Are you a white supremacist buying into great replacement theory?
You support the status quo that ends with the eradication of the Palestinian people and the dissolution of their state. How are you not pro Isreal?
Yes it's called having an actual position. But sure we can be done now that I've had a fair chance to speak.
God damn... It must be hard having more chromosomes than brain cells. Is there freedom of religion in Palestine? Are women equal to men in Palestine? Are gays allowed to openly exist?
Will you get murdered for drawing a cartoon of Abraham or Moses in Israel?
Poor them, they were open to peaceful coexistence or a two-state solution but those evil Israelis said no... Oh wait.
Speaking of history and genocide, ever heard of Amin al-Husseini? There's a pretty clear reason why he and Adolf got along so well.
I harbor mostly equal disdain for all religions but I've never heard of Jews giving people a choice between conversion or being executed.
PS, don't bother replying, I've wasted enough time on your smooth-brained bullshit already.
no historical context needed. History is not useful at all to understand current actions. Do your own research, but i can tell you The british supported jewish militias, to occupy that territory (under british control). That started the ethnic cleasing of palestinians in 1948, displacing millions. I dont know how to link stuff pls help me