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Israeli strikes flatten buildings, mosques in Gaza
(www.aljazeera.com)
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this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
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They literally did have the right. Just because you don't like the way the world works didn't make it not work that way.
Conquerors and colonizers (the British, but it applies to Israel as well) do not have inherent right to rule. No one voted for them to make decisions. Having the power to dominate is not the same thing as having the right to decide what the people they oppress must accept.
This must be a neat little world you live in where world history doesn't exist and norms of a time period weren't real and didn't matter. Hell, by your method of accounting, I suppose Europe needs to import about 330 million Americans.
I'm not supporting imperialism. It was an awful thing. The genocide of the natives in the Americas was absolutely despicable. The impact around the world was by and large awful for those being colonized. But Israelis are not colonizers in Israel. They have had a population there even under Muslim rule.
To actually want to find a peaceful resolution, you must start with an understanding of how the world actually works.
Country borders have been built. Having might did allow you to expand your empire since time immemorial. And the modern form of Israel came from fighting and diplomacy with the British, who had conquered that land. Israel legally established itself with firm borders just as the Palestinians were offered.
That is the real world. And that is the situation you must work with. Whether you think it is fair or not.
And whether or not you like it, both the west bank and Gaza (and much more) were ceded to Israel by the countries controlling those territories prior to the war. And Israel has also been willing to make land for peace agreements as it did with Egypt and the Sinai peninsula. Jordan and Egypt withdrew their sovereignty. Up until that time they could have also made Palestine an independent state. They didn't.
With all of that being said, after many years of war of war and fighting and disagreements, Israel has become less diplomatic. Especially after the total demobilization of Gaza. Them leaving Gaza is what allowed this current attack to happen.
And the harsh truth is that the Palestinians could have a country rather quickly, but it would just be less than what they demand and want. They are in a weak bargaining position. Made weaker by the repeated attacks. But for all intents and purposes, Gaza has been a sovereign territory for 18 years. And they have done nothing in the name of peace.
It is long, complicated, and difficult. And I support the Palestinians getting their own sovereignty and nation. I support land swaps. But I also acknowledge the reality of the situation requires that the Palestinians give up on some things they have sworn to not give up on. Israel has not kept Muslims from visiting their holy sites, the way Jews were denied in spite of the agreements Jordan made with the UN. In fact, it was Jordanian(I believe) troops that would not allow me to visit inside the temple mount, because I'm not a Muslim.
Negotiations require flexibility. And while Israel has shown that flexibility with land swaps in exchange for the settlements, the other side doesn't even want to be required to acknowledge Israel as having a right to exist. Border disputes happen all the time and are worked out in different ways, but very often one side can end up with less than they want. But isn't that worth taking over the current situation?
Look up Martín Garcia island. Or the Andes boundaries. The Sverdrup islands. Hanish islands. The Baltic sea with Poland and Denmark.
LOL. Ain't no one reading that. Not in a "I read it, but don't want to work on a response" way, but "I don't think any opinions you've expressed thus far warrant reading a wall of text about 'how the world really works'".
Real funny way to say you would prefer to not see the other sides' thoughts.
So I'll make this one short. You said
The thing is, there is no god (or natural law of the universe) given set in stone right to rule. But the de facto and often de jure truth is that historically they do. Human has functioned as such since the time when multiple species of humans existed.
Ok but in this case you're wrong. Go read the 1948 plan. They ASKED both parties to voluntarily make 2 states. Jews said of course Arabs said no this is our land and always has been and these are our enemies.
Somehow you think that in the 20th century it's ok for a country to
A have a colony and B dictate things to that colony against its will.
Just because it has the force to. Astounding. Morality be damned huh? Ethics right out the window might makes right.