122
Are there any green alternatives to asphalt in development?
(sh.itjust.works)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
122 points (96.2% liked)
Asklemmy
43395 readers
1301 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
I do like the brick roads they often have in places like the Netherlands. Example
Not sure how they compare in environmental impact though.
Aren't brick roads bumpy to drive on? It may be fine to put in housing areas where cars drive slow normally, but I imagine it would be a pain in the ass (literally, lol) and dangerous to drive on on high speed roads.
Sure, you wouldn't put them on highways. But I'd like to have less of those anyway. They're decent for cycling or driving at lower speeds.
dunno if I'd call it decent. bumps will wear out suspension components prematurely, meaning they'll have to be replaced more often. so more metal and rubber being produced. is it enough to make brick not worth it? idk. also worth noting that asphalt is far grippier than brick. more grip = safer
I think you really overestimate the bumpiness of those kind of roads. They're not like medieval cobbleroads.
We have all kinds in my city: Medieval cobblestone, brick roads and asphalt. As a cyclist I have to tell you that I hate all kinds of brick roads that I have encountered. Even when they're not the horrible middle age version, they will often get deformed by roots or depression of the ground quite rapidly, making them even more bumpy. For this reason I think, I saw in Sweden in an otherwise bricky city center that they had a narrow asphalt lane on the side of the road for cyclists. I was just amazed that someone would spend that much thought into what's great for cyclists. As a cyclist I really love asphalt :D
That's true, but more of a maintenance issue IMO. Brick roads do have the advantage that workers can just take some of the bricks out, fix whatever is wrong underneath and put the same bricks back on. Can't really do that with asphalt, which will eventually deform as well.
Asphalt is almost a liquid when it’s hot. That’s a significant advantage in application.
Let’s be real here. Asphalt is the result of tens of thousands of years of human decision making, all of it heavily invested in finding the best solution to each problem.
I think you underestimate how small differences have large results when we’re talking about nationwide or population-wide issues. If there are a million cars on the road and this change makes suspensions wear 5% faster, then every X years (however long it would usually take for them to wear) there are an extra 50,000 cars needing replacements. That’s not an insignificant amount. Scale that up to larger countries that have tens or hundreds of millions of cars and the result gets even larger.
Small differences make large impacts. 1.5°C average global warming is having disastrous effects on the environment and our capacity to thrive. COVID-19 has a Case Fatality Rate of around 1% (depending on country) and it has caused nearly 7 million deaths - more than the amount of Jewish people murdered in the Holocaust and similar to the Holodomor.
Holocaust total was 12 million, of which 6 million were Jews.
Cheers for the correction - I’ve edited my comment.
I actually know from watching Formula E, that in order to make their indoor/outdoor track in an exhibition center in London race viable, and would still be able to operate normally after the race, they developed a way to add grip on concrete floors without the use of asphalt.
Article link
YouTube video from Chain Bear on how they made the track
Edit: Link format
Bumpier = slower = safer.
Slower = driving less distance = less wear and tear.
how is slower less distance
Time is a limited resource
Consider the fact that you're unlikely to make a trip to the other side of the world if it weren't for the fact that airplanes exist and they cover the distance very fast.
Higher speeds enable different trips to happen - the speed changes the types and distances of transportation that happen.
Slower = less transportation happening
Cars are the least efficient means of transporting people and make all other means of transporting less efficient. Less cars = more transportation happening.
Not if people need to go to every point on the map, throughout the whole road grid.
But I think we can consolidate vehicles a bit.
Something like electric bikes or segways or scooters for the last mile helps cover the entire grid.
And we could have double the number of buses, maybe with demand-based scaling of bus lines (no doubt they already do this but I bet it’s on the scale of months instead of hours).
But those other forms of transport don’t provide privacy, and we really like the privacy of a car.
The turbo lift from star trek is a cool idea. Just a room you stand in that takes you wherever. That provides some privacy.
I think more fundamental than the logistical aspects of it, the main hurdle is that sense of owning the space you’re traveling in. In my car I’ve got a thousand little tweaks I’ve made.
Maybe each person could have a vehicle configuration that gets loaded up into the generic shared vehicles, so when they get in it feels like theirs, has all the same things ready.
...No they are very smooth. I think you are thinking of cobblestones.
Hmm, I may have. I admit I have never driven on brick roads before (cobblestone roads yes), so more input on people's experience and long term observations with these would be great.
Do you think it's viable in situations like high speed driving? Other potential problems?
Netherlands and Australia use brick in places where we want cars to slow down. Drivers automatically slow their speeds on brick roads. They're fine to cycle on.
Why? Is it not smooth enough to drive fast on?
There's more rumbling, which makes it feel faster.
That just means it feels uncomfortable and dangerous to drive fast on because it rumbles more, so they slow down.
I don't think that's how it works...
It really does. Source: am Dutch.
Okay... So what about the brick roads make you "feel faster"? I have never driven on one, and the only comparison I could think of is the difference of driving on freshly paved roads (very smooth) and roads that are a few years old. Maybe that's the "rumble" that makes you feel like driving fast? I can kind of get that. Are those the same feeling?
Yeah, it's mostly the noise (and a little bit of the vibration) that makes you feel faster. Doesn't really happen when you drive the speed limit, which most of the time is 30 km/h for residential areas where it is common to have brick paving. Drive any faster, and you'll feel uncomfortable in many ways, which causes all but a select few daredevils to just slow down and keep everyone safer. :) Add some traffic calming in the mix, such as speed bumps, zig-zags, trees, raised crossings, etc., and you have a street where parents feel comfortable having their kids play football outside.
I see. Thanks for the info! :)
Cars should be banned.