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We can talk about whataboutism

You're not talking about whataboutisim you're doing a whataboutisim. Israel is an apartheid state. If Israel want's to stop the violence they can get their settlers out of the west bank. They can give back Gaza. Until they get the fuck out of Palestinian land I can't blame the Palestinians for fighting to get them out.

[-] SwampYankee@mander.xyz 14 points 1 year ago

If Israel want’s to stop the violence they can get their settlers out of the west bank.

Somewhat naive to think that will stop the violence. Israel was withdrawing through the 90s as part of the Oslo Process, which ended with the Second Initifada. There are substantial populations on both sides that want the other side gone from that land completely, and they will take any opportunity to further entrench themselves and stoke conflict.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Israel was withdrawing through the 90s as part of the Oslo Process, which ended with the Second Initifada.

Look at the Israeli terms of the Camp David summit and you'll get why the Intifada happened. These are terms no self-respecting state would accept.

[-] SwampYankee@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

The US & Israelis were still hoping Arafat would come back to the table until the Intifada broke out. Peace takes time and some weren't willing to give it the time it needed.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

The US & Israelis were still hoping Arafat would come back to the table until the Intifada broke out.

Israel was pretty clear about what they wanted, and that was not a real, self-sufficient Palestinian state. If you need proof of that, take a look at the modern West Bank. Israel actively funded Hamas in the early 90s to weaken the Palestinian peace movement, and would later take many such actions to divide Palestinians and prevent peace from happening.

The last time the Israeli government seriously considered a two-state solution was in 1947.

[-] SwampYankee@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

Israel was pretty clear about what they wanted, and that was not a real, self-sufficient Palestinian state.

And the PLO was established with the aim of eliminating the state of Israel. Times change. I think Arafat and Rabin were serious at the time, but there was simply too much of a gap to bridge. Since then it's only gotten worse. Yes, Israel funded Hamas, but at the time they were more concerned about the violence of the PLO. I don't believe the intent was to create a more dangerous enemy as a pretext for war as some are suggesting now, however it was stupid and short-sighted, and blowback is a much more widely recognized phenomenon today than it was then.

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this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
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