299
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2023
299 points (97.2% liked)
World News
38943 readers
1740 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
If you need to know what people around you are doing before you can decide what to do, then you aren't acting out of personal conviction.
If you were truly acting out of personal conviction, then your state statistics would be completely irrelevant to you.
The reason we even entered into this conversation was because the original person I was responding to suggested that me not voting for Biden would somehow impact whether or not Trump could potentially be reelected. It can't, and won't for the statistical reasons that I mentioned.
However, you are correct that me choosing not to vote for Biden again based on my disagreement with his tacit support for Israeli war crimes has nothing to do with that statistical reality.
Then the original person you were responding to was right.
If Trump wins, people who chose to abstain from voting regardless of the consequences will share the blame. People like you.
I explained my position, you explained yours.
I still think you're a pedantic fuck & a debate pervert.
You still think I'm responsible for Trump HYPOTHETICALLY getting reelected.
Seems we're at an impasse.
No, I think that if Trump gets re-elected, then you are partly responsible.
If Trump is not re-elected, then you're not responsible for anything except being rude.
You chose to respond, and then started playing little semantic word games over a hypothetical scenario regarding my hypothetical vote that I haven't even cast yet.
So, yeah, I came at you because you came at me first. Don't like it? Then keep your opinions to yourself I guess...
You were rude before I entered the conversation. I'm here to support the person you rudely responded to. Are you suggesting that you are entitled to be rude whenever people with disagree with you?
And this is not a "semantic word game". People like you were actually responsible for the actual, non-hypothetical, election of Trump in 2016. If he is re-elected, then people like you will again be responsible.
I'm entitled to speak my mind, and defend my position. You want to play the victim, and act offended after voluntarily entering a conversation.
No, it was because Hillary Clinton was a historically bad candidate that enough voters didn't like, trust, or identify with. But go off 🤴, keep blaming the people in this country for the failings and entitlement of the political class while they continue selling us out by making people pick between the lesser of two evils.
Hillary Clinton was a bad candidate and people like you are responsible for electing Trump. Both are true.
Just as it is true both that Obama was a good candidate and that people like me are responsible for electing him.
Choosing between flawed candidates is what democracy is all about. Always has been.
I'm surprised you can reach your keyboard from up there on your high horse. I voted for Hillary Clinton even though I didn't trust her, and knew she was a chicken hawk. So shut your fucking mouth about me doing shit to get Trump elected.
I knew he was dangerous from day one while Hillary and the DNC were the ones PROPPING HIM UP AS A JOKE CANDIDATE. Well who's laughing now? Please keep blaming me for shit I had nothing to do with you fucking pussy. Fuck you.
As I said, people like you are responsible for electing Trump in 2016. Back then apparently you were wiser than now.
The people who VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP are exclusively responsible for ELECTING DONALD TRUMP.
"People like you" are the reason why there are so many apathetic voters in this country. They are are tired of being guilted or shamed into voting for terrible candidates simply to keep things from devolving into a fascist or Christian nationalist hellscape and then being ragged on by "People like you" for daring to eat that bucket of shit without sticking a smile on their face in the process.
See, we can both use weasel words. 😘
Nobody is asking you to smile.
You can choose to keep things from devolving into a fascist or Christian nationalist hellscape, or choose to do nothing and let the world burn. Either way it's your choice, and don't be surprised when anyone holds you responsible for that choice.
You're a grown-up who has seen how actual democracies function in the real world, so you should know by now that waiting for a unicorn to vote for is the equivalent to doing nothing.
And for everyone who is "guilting and shaming" you, there are five others who are intentionally pointing out the faults in candidates because they want you to walk away.
Our outrage-obsessed media is designed to make you feel bad about whoever you vote for. Case in point: the media made you believe Biden "publicly supports ethnic cleansing".
You entered into this discussion because I said I had an ethical problem with voting for Biden when he continues to justify and tacitly support Israeli war crimes and their continued ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people. Let's not forget that.
Your stupid fucking bullshit take was that I'm the asshole because I even suggested that I was uncomfortable voting for him after that, and was therefore guilty by association in the hypothetical event Donald Trump gets reelected.
I then continued to point out that my vote has no legitimate bearing on the electoral process due to the fact that we don't elect candidates based on the popular vote, and my state is already a Democrat stronghold. You want to make me guilty by association to justify your own guilt for supporting imperialist, genocidal, zionist foreign policy with your hypothetical vote I guess. You voted for it, so by your logic that makes you equally responsible for the evil & death carried out in your name via the democratic process that you want to jerk yourself off for supporting.
So, don't be surprised when someone holds you responsible for being an enabler of an ongoing genocide, and an establishment sycophant I guess.
I prefer to be on the side of not supporting psychopathic behavior that is being carried out in the name of religion regardless what fucking flag their country flies, or how much they want to permanently paint themselves out to be the victim. That's something you and Israel have in common actually. You both think you're the victim when really you're the one defending the process of further victimization.
First of all, Biden doesn't support genocide or ethnic cleansing, "tacitly" or otherwise.
Second, if you are against genocide or ethnic cleansing, then you could prove it by helping to elect the candidate who is less likely to pursue it. In the next election, that candidate will almost certainly be Biden. If you don't vote, then nobody should believe you are actually willing to do the bare minimum to stop it.
Finally, nobody cares where you live. If you supported Trump, you would most certainly be held accountable even if you lived in California. Same is true if you declined to oppose Trump.
He has proven otherwise over the last week by continuing to overtly support Israel's use of asymmetrical warfare in order to wipe out Palestinian civilians in a slow motion genocide. Thus, my frustration and ultimate choice not to vote for him again. He could have made the decision to call for peace instead of scoring political points at the expense of civilian lives.
Biden is currently continuing to support the neo-conservative, zionist, apartheid state of Israel in their ongoing genocide against Palestinian civilians. No matter what candidate you vote for you will likely be providing material support to that reality given the current plausible options. So, I am making the decision not to support any candidate who supports that foreign policy objective because unlike you I'm not a fucking hypocrite.
We've been over this. The only people who are responsible for Donald Trump are the people in this country who voted for him willingly. Get that through your fucking head.
No, he hasn't supported Israeli action against civilians. Your suggestion otherwise proves that you aren't even bothering to read Biden's statements on the matter.
In the linked article, he warned Israel to obey international law when retaliating against Hamas.
Today, he warned Israel not to occupy Gaza, adding:
"Hamas and the extreme elements of Hamas don’t represent all the Palestinian people ... There needs to be a Palestinian Authority. There needs to be a path to a Palestinian state."
Meanwhile, the State Department is working to reopen humanitarian aid corridors to Gaza:
We've been over this, but you keep getting it wrong. The people responsible for Trump include those who won't lift a finger to stop him.
Doing nothing in the face of evil does not free you from responsibility for evil. Ask any German.