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China says Israel has gone too far
(www.politico.com)
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this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2023
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So, you think its more likely that terrorists snuck weaponry into a very regulated china, bombed chinese vehicles, and then got slaughtered while also magically removing any evidence china could use to prove there was a terrorist plot forcing them to hide all facts about the event?
And its less likely that the well armed chinese military also blew up vehicles while slaughtering protestors?
Who was the conspiracy theorist again?
What are you talking about? This isn't China today, this is China in 1989 when they weren't able to have the kind of control they do today. In fact, Tiananmen is WHY China puts all the controls they have in place today. And we can feel that's excessive, but at least know some basic history. Jesus, if you don't even know basic history you really are a lost cause.
*Edit: In fact prior to Tiananmen, the west thought China was so open they were happily selling China weapons.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GAOREPORTS-T-NSIAD-98-171/pdf/GAOREPORTS-T-NSIAD-98-171.pdf
It wasn't until after Tiananmen did they feel China was closed. And China said it had to be because of Tiananmen. So yeah, back then, not too hard to get weapons in.
Did you just say that they couldnt have collected proof of a terror attack because it was 1989?
What? I said back before 1989 the west was even shipping weapons into China, so weapons were pretty available. But they decided to stop because China cracked down and then became opaque. I don't even know what you're trying to say.
Try reading what I say, and magically you will learn.
No because it's completely incoherent like your argument. But to answer your original point, it was much easier to access weapons in China prior to 1989. You just can't deal with reality.
My original question was where the evidence of terrorist attacks went, not that china is a magical anti weapon zone.
Fuck me dude, can you follow a sentence at all? Are you following a script, and Ive gone too far off your path?
Where have you been? This is China's stance on literally everything. You don't need evidence because we are not beholden to you. That's what they've said about everything from Tiananmen, to the Uyghur situation, to Jack Ma, to what Xi ate for lunch.
Hey Jack Ma is dead right? He disappeared, and the west was going crazy as shit that they killed him. Oh but now he's in Japan, they were wrong. And China's response on all of that? Fuck you, it's none of your god damn business.
*Edit: Also 911 was an inside job right? Where's the proof it wasn't? And that's why China says fuck you. Because idiots like yourself will spout nonsense no matter what anyway.
Oops, someone tell the handler youve slipped lip a bit.
So, what youre saying is there were definitely terrorists but they refuse to prove it, but they had to massacre everyone there to deal with the terrorists that tooooootally were there, so it wasnt war crimes because of the evidence you definitely have but refuse to show?
Or in other words.... Proof of a terror attack would exonerate china of the event and completely embarass all of its global rivals. Instead of rubbing everyones nose in it, they are actively hiding and suppressing any discussion of the terrorists.
Because they arent real. They dont exist. And if china lets that out, they have to admit they murdered their own people over nothing.
E: the US did loads of "inside job" investigations. They published a good deal of it. You should google it, its an interesting read
There are lots of photos of burnt out armor from the protestors attacks by western journalists.
Their argument is if you see those images of destroyed armor taken by foreign nationals and still think that some how China did it, well fuck you. You're too god damn stupid to talk to.
Where on those images does it show they were damaged by non chinese weaponry?
What are you talking about, of course they were damaged with Chinese weaponry. They're in China. I already told you at the time weapons weren't as restricted, the people got access to Chinese weaponry. Why the fuck would Chinese protestors use other weaponry?
*Edit: Did you know BLM protestors used AR-15s? Where was the non-American weaponry? No PROOF THEREFORE BLM DIDN'T HAPPEN. You absolute dunce.
For fucks sake dude, obviously I mean proper noun china, in contrast to the imaginary terrorists.
Could you pick typing, or huffing glue? You get to do 1. Either turn off your computer, or go put the fucking glue away.
Chinese people used Chinese weapons yes. Just like Americans user AR-15s. What is your point?
AR15s are not trademarked US weaponry. An AR15 is not proof of american military presence. Its just a gun.
Do I need to dumb down questions for you? Should I avoid big boy words?
... Are you dumb? AR-15 is the civilian moniker for M-16. You know that right? There's no way to distinguish the damage they do from one another.
You genuinely have no idea what you were asked, and its so fucking funny.
Its like someone told me they trained their dog really well, so I tell the dog (you) to fetch a ball. And the dog (you) keeps trying to put its paw in my hand. No you dumb dog! Fetch!
Im not using complex ideas, Im speaking in simple sentences, Im repeating myself for you when you fuck up, and you still dont grok a thing.
"Hurrr, but AR? But AR? That merica weapon? Weapon, in merica? AR? It M16? Hurr? What was question?"
There's no way to distinguish the damage. It would be like comparing ar-15 with m-16. It's impossible. And thus, you've proven why China simply says fuck you.
..... Do you think that terrorists on american soil would attack with ARs?
Do you think that the american military only uses the M16, as its singular weapon, and would respond with such to a terror attack?
Do you think the only evidence of non military strikes are if you can see an AR in frame?
Genuinely, you have no clue what youre talking about.
Wait, do you not know there's domestic terrorism? Do you think the Jan 6th rioters used foreign weapons? BLM? Yet the police still had to deal with them, sometimes violently.
I don't get where you are getting this foreign terrorist idea from
The jan 6th rioters mostly didnt use weapons at all, but the ones carrying used open market sold firearms. Not military issued and grade weaponry.
Ill be honest, I dont think you know what BLM even was. You keep bringing it up like its even remotely on topic. Do you watch a lot of fox news?
Let me spell it out for you. Ill keep it simple. Read slowly, and sound out the words.
China makes their own weaponry. Their weapons, like all weapons, leave specific patterns of damage and debris. Every nation has heavily studied these weaponry patterns, and can easily determine what weapons could and couldnt cause a given type of damage.
China doesnt sell its weapons to the people, and really never has. The public chinese gun market was mostly foreign made, and chinese weapons were mostly used for self arming or selling to other nations. There are a lot of political reasons for that, but they dont matter for this. The end result was foreign guns in the peoples hands, and state made guns in state sponsored hands.
What this means is any evidence of non chinese weaponry would prove actions of terrorists. Any evidence. Left behind guns, bombs, grenades, any bullet casings, any identifying fragments of weaponry, specific destructive patterns, literally anything.
Even a single non chinese bullet dug out of a wall would prove china right, because chinese military would never have those bullets.
China has nothing to show. Despite how easy it would be to find any type of this evidence.
Right so ignoring your ignorance I will repeat, people use weapons they create. The Chinese used Chinese weapons. And I'd love you to explain how to differentiate the casings of a Russian SKS and a Chinese made one. Or a markarov. Oh wait, they're exactly the same. And that was the primary weapons for both the civilians and the military at that time. Well damn, I guess your just wrong
...... Are you claiming that people only use guns they handcraft? And not purchase? Because the chinese public gun market from 1870 to the massacre was almost exclusively foreign models.
You tell the difference based on manufacturer differences. They burn and bend the casings differently. You can id which factory an SKS came from via that. Same thing for bullets, you can tell exactly which gun fired a bullet based on the damage done to the bullet by the chamber. Thats how cops can id which gun was used at the scene of a crime.
Wait wait wait, you think they handcraft SKS? Also, you clearly don't understand forensics. The only way they can match is if they have the gun. You can't match based on the bullet or casing alone.
*Edit: Here's a document on how forensics works.
https://www.nist.gov/firearms-and-toolmarks#:~:text=What%20is%20forensic%20ballistics%3F,marks%20are%20like%20ballistic%20fingerprints.
Key point:
They need the suspect's gun to identify.
You said they handcraft them, dunce. Im mocking you for that.
You need the gun to match the specific gun to its specific bullet. You can still id model and company of origin, often down to the factory via batching defects.
A bullet or its casing would tell you what kind of gun it was, and who made it. Proof of russian made SKS, for example, would show that non military combatants were present.
I didn't say anyone handcrafted anything. I said you can't tell the difference between a Russian SKS and a Chinese one. You're the weird one talking about handcrafting.
Also, no you can't tell the difference forensically from a Russian vs Chinese SKS unless you had the gun. They were literally made with the same tools. But you don't know that do you?
Ok dunce, your comments are right there.
If they were made in the same factory, you mean? Its the same concept as forensicall bullet to barrel matching. You are matching the casing to known micro defects of the regions manufacture.
Different manufacturers use different materials for the barrel, or chamber, etc which alters how the bullet or casing is dented, burned, etc. Theres also some minor stylistic differences which result in the same thing. AK47s from russia in the 60s jam a lot, for example, way more than is normal. Something was wrong with a template, and the error wasnt caught for a while.
This forensics was used in the middle east under bush to id who had participated in different fire fights, because different groups were supplied from different sources. If you know only the taliban has access to russian made weaponry, for example, you can use that to id where they were involved.
Your handler should have told you all this, very embarassing.
Nothing you said is correct. I literally sent you a document that explains how it works. Your ignorance is astounding.
No you didnt, you sent a link to a 2 paragraph article-ette detailing how cops apply the science to match a gun to a crime scene.
Thats just how local cops use it, not the only way to study post firing remnants. Cops dont need to know which militaristic force robbed your cousin, just if his personal gun was at the crime.
This is like if you posted a mini blurb on how to collect rain water in your backyard as proof that the water cycle doesnt create fog.
Ask your handler. Im sure he can explain this to you using pictures with bright colors.
E: I actually went looking through that site, and while its not public access they go into some detail about how they are literally creating a database of gun type forensics. Literally exactly what I am talking about, down to gun year and difficulties vs obvious tells for specific models.
Yeah, things they didn't have in the 89s. Thanks for confirming you have no idea what you're talking about. A database of gun type forensics. Yeah all those super computers in China back then.
Holy shit, you genuinely are stupid. That single website is working on their own private database for american gun circulation. That is not the global database for all guns ever since the invention of guns. We have had ballistic forensics since the 1800s, and manufacturer tells have been commonly known since the 20s.
I pointed it out as an example from your source confirming that what I said was correct. Are you now calling your own source a liar?
Also..... Hey, buddy? You understand databases are older than computers right? A database is just a collection of datapoints. This could be, and likely is, a stapled packet of papers sorted by company and model.
Oh, wait, let me guess. China didnt have paper in the 80s?
A collection of sortable data points. Guess what isn't easy to sort, stacks of paper. No one had a "database" of forensic markings to compare anything to back then. Which is why they compared it to the barrels. Sure once you get computers and stuff you could use that to collect data points and sort, but you ain't doing that with paper.
Otherwise, why even have computers?
*Edit: Oh wait is this your thinking of how SKS are handcrafted? The world doesn't work that way.
Hold up, are you trying to claim that china is so incompetent that they couldnt do the basic levels of investigation that had been common use since the 20s on a massive terrorist attack??
The US was using this data nationwide in the 60s. Are you genuinely saying china was over 2 decades behind the US for basic investigation capacity?? For a supposed terrorist attack??
How incompetent are you trying to say china is?
At that time, very. That's actually well known. China's boom didn't really start until the early 2000. Which is why America likes to say that they created China.
But all that is actually not the point. It's not an issue of incompetence but simply not keeping stacks of useless data about minor forensic differences in bullets. As with most places at that time, you'd just have enough to give you type of gun but not make and manufacturer. I'm not even sure that US would have had it at that time.
*Edit and China didn't care at the time because unlike the violent shithole that is America, they didn't have a lot of gun crime.
Ballistics forensics has been considered massive military intel since, again, the 20s. Its considered one of the intel gold standards, it is only useless if youre a fucking moron.
Its cute that youre pretending this is some useless info, but even a simple google search would show you otherwise. Any country with legal guns keeps detailed records. As you yourself so proudly stated, china had a thriving foreign gun economy. Information about those guns would have been at the tips of any investigations fingers. (It doesnt matter how much gun crime you have, because if you have any gun crime at all you need to id the murder weapon.)
Especially while investigating a terrorist attack.
Youre grasping at straws because you didnt read your own source before sending it to me with a bow, not realizing it confirmed what I already told you. Just admit youre lying about the fake terrorists.
Like I said, china was backwards in many things at that time. The reason all their weapons were Soviet was because they didn't know how to even begin to make their own. The Chinese story is one of coming from nothing in the 80s and 90s to becoming a super power in the 20s.
So yeah, their military definitely didn't meet the gold standard at that time.
What about it.
And thus, again, why China just says fuck you. There's no reason to let anyone know where in advancement stages china was in.
Dude do you understand how unhinged you sound claiming china has no idea what basic crime investigation is?
Thats like saying they were still using horse drawn carriages. Or didnt have shoes.
Wow, such an American thing to say. Hey the world isn't America, we don't all have gun violence problems. It shouldn't be surprising that China didn't invest in ballistic forensics as much as America did. But to YOU, not having good ballistic forensics is the same as having no idea about basic crime investigation.
Hey, here's another secret, crime existed before guns. Crime investigation existed before guns. Not all countries had psychopaths like the US toting guns and shooting everyone that ballistic forensics became important.
Jesus, you sound ignorant of the real world.
It was an international standard set in 1933 by a conference in europe, which the majority of the world participated in. Its not magically uniquely american, other nations also know what forensic science is.
Hey look, I get youve dug such a deep hole that you need to pretend that america is the only country who can investigate crimes in order to not admit you lied about the terrorist thing. But you sound like an idiot pretending china was some undeveloped proto nation.
Ah yes Europe, the Asianest of continents. Wait no it's not. One of the problems China had was that the west wasn't sharing all the data with them. It's cute again that the west thinks they're the international world. But guess what, Asia never felt that way. It's literally one of the dividing issues. Again, so ignorant.
*Edit: Also it's important to note that I'm not saying China couldn't match a barrel to a gun. I'm saying China didn't have this magical database that could let it identify to the manufacturer. It simply wasn't important to China at the time to match to manufacturer. If they found the murder weapon it was enough for them to identify the murderer.
*Edit 2: Wait in 1933 was just the standardization of how to identify barrel to gun. There was no database at that time. You're just makin stuff up to trick me. WHEN DID THIS MAGICAL DATABASE EXIST!?
China was involved in the conference, so I dont think they felt left out of the party they were present at. Manufacturer identification is older than barrel id. Barrel id is matching a specific bullet to a specific gun.
...... Every country makes its own database, honey. There isnt a single database. This isnt a video game, its the real world.
Bingo and as I said over and over China didn't invest a lot into this. So they didn't have the data to trace. It's not rocket science.
*Edit: Also, it's not like I said they couldn't trace anything. I said they could trace to type at the time, but not as detailed as manufacturer. You'd need enough data to do that and they didn't think it was important to collect to that level.
They went to a conference in 1933 to directly invest in this, so I think they knew it just fine.
You seem to think manufacturer id is harder than gun barrel id. Manufacturer id is very easy, thats what was pioneered in the 20s.
If china could do barrel id (which they could, like everyone else) they could do manufacturer id.