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this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2023
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Gaza is in the grip of terrorists who abuse population as their shield and keep drawing fire on them. As long as they are in power and the population is unable to get rid of them this is not a place for a child to go and visit relatives. Who allowed that to happen?
If Israel found an attack from Hamas at this point as hard to imagine as they claim to, why in the world would we expect civilians to be better informed.
Some people, obviously mistakenly, believed Hamas to have cooled down a little bit and to be genuinely interested in making the lives of civilians a little bit easier. The terrorist attacks of course illustrated forcefully that this was not the case, but it's hard to blame civilians for being surprised by this when Mossad apparently had no way of seeing it coming either.
It is not some new development that Hamas is a terrorist group that hides behind the population. It is also not new that they are not about to leave Gaza voluntarily so they will have to be forcefully removed at some point by someone. If you managed to get out of Gaza it is a grave mistake to go back there for a vacation. As long as it is a hideout for terrorists it will be a target of their victims.
It's easy to say this now, not so obvious a week ago.
Assuming you're right - why the hell was the IDF so goddamn unprepared?
This has been 75 years in the making. It was obvious a week ago, a year ago and a decade ago.
My guess is that IDF was not unprepared. They knew - politics took the wheel and they just ignored all the warnings.
Why should I know that? I'm not the care taker of Israel. They should not have left Gaza unwatched and allowed terrorists to cross into Israel. And her parents should not have sent a child into a Hamas lead city.
Hamas showed once again that they are terrorists who want Israel gone and the people of Gaza have to suffer for it because no one cared for removing Hamas or stopping them before they once again attacked Israel.
There are terrorists on both sides. It's easy for you to preach from your high horse. When was the last time you felt in danger of dying? What about the last time you didn't have clean water and food? Not being allowed to see your lover ones?
You fucking disconnected hypocrite.
It's also very easy for you to demand that the people of Israel should just accept getting attacked by Hamas once in a while while everyone pretends it's alright that Gaza is governed by terrorists who have made it their official goal to genocide the Jews. This conflict can only be solved with cooperation but that is not possible with Hamas.
That does not make any sense but you can stuff that in your ass anyways.
How did Hamas get to be in power in Gaza? What about the people of Gaza? You don't hear anyone getting butthurt when people in Gaza arr routinely killed and starved to death. You don't hear it in the news.
Why would people in Gaza want to subject themselves to this death and destruction?
Pretending that somehow the lives of jewish people are more valuable that the lives of Palestinians is what makes you a hypocrite.
Yes how come no one gives a shit about Hamas being in power there, causing nothing but death and misery for everyone in the area? Now that Israel got hit so hard that they decided to end Hamas in the most destructive way people suddenly care for the people living there.
I'm sorry if I made it look like I care more for one faction than the other, I honestly don't think the lives of the people of Gaza are worth less than those living in Israel. It is a horrible thing that Israel sees no other way to fight against Hamas but to hit Gaza harder and harder. Do you have a proposition on how Israel should react to the terrorist attack?
You need to understand that people in Gaza are desperate. Israel is not going to do the right thing. They have been committing war crimes for 75 years. Hamas is not going to do the right thing.
IMHO there need to be an outside peace keeping mission to mitigate this. Anything else is going to end up with a blood bath.
We think it's bad now? Wait until it escalates and the whole region blows up. What will Israel do when gets attacked by Hezbollah? How will Iran and Egypt react to what they see as meddling in the middle east by western powers? Europe is already not playing nice with Israel. US is going to need to soften their stance (and they have started to do already).
Israel attacking Gaza and blocking food and water (ie genocide) is as dumb as Hamas attacking Israel in the first place. This is what happens when you put political interest in front of what is good for your own people.
I am highly distressed by the fact that people are fucking dying as we speak and everyone seems to have one weird trick without understanding any history and without factoring in the context in tge region.
Do you have an idea as to what "the right thing" for Israel to do now is? It is easy to demand they stop attacking Gaza but I never read any proposals of what to do instead but "suck it up". I think the only way to stop this is a trustworthy player in the region that can credibly assure Israel that they would help them remove Hamas from Gaza so they stop the destruction.
The people in Israel are also desperate. They left Hamas to their own devices and were hit with the largest attack in decades. Now they want Hamas gone - at any cost. The international community left them alone with the problem and now they want to solve it to prevent this from ever happening again. TBH I don't dare to give advice to any side here any advice on what they should do. It's a catastrophe that Hamas wanted and received. Loads and loads of people that receive no help and are left to die. There are many "should have" and "could have" to be said but what do they matter now?
A side note regarding escalation, if you care for my opinion on this:
I don't think that Iran or Egypt will join any escalation by Hezbollah or Fatah. Russia is stretched thin anyways, Egypt gives 0 shit about Palestine and Iran will get completely dismantled by the US alone. Europe will not be a player in the region, we are completely busy with Ukraine and we likely cannot contribute anything that Israel needs (except ammunition, I guess). It will be a complete disaster of death and destruction for the region that no one wants - but I think Israel and the US are ready to fight it if anyone wants to escalate.
Lol. You're new to the conflict in the area?
People that lose everything get radicalized and even if you manage to remove every single Hamas member from Gaza you'll be back to the same situation in no time.
There needs to be an international peace force in the area and both sides need to revisit if this stupid war is worth fighting.
If you think that's a good excuse for violence, why doesn't the same excuse apply for Israel and why it exists?
I agree. There needs to be an international peace force to dismantle Hamas and enable a peaceful coexistence between Israel and Gaza.
They also should dismantle the Israeli state
Yes yes. Let's have israel liberate them /s
When they cut of water, power and supplies it's business even though the result is people dying and in effect genocide. When Hamas attacjs them it's terrorism. Killing innocent civilians ON ANY SIDE is terrorism.
Turns out living with terrorists that keep provoking attacks on you is a shit situation that you should escape from or call for international help to remove them. It is sad that innocent people of Gaza suffer and die and I wish that tragedy would not happen but that blood is solely on Hamas' hands - they fully knew what the reaction would be.
If you think living with terrorists is bad you should think about a fucking county that has power hungry terrorist leadership. You Israel is a terrorist state and them killing civilians in Gaza is no different than what Hamas is doing. You can pretend it's something else but this is genocide.
You throw that word around without knowing what it means.
Explain it to me you brainiac. Let's see if you can do mental gymnastics to justify what is happening.
Is wikipedia good enough for your Highness?
Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people[a] in whole or in part. In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.[1][2]
Killing members of a group? Check. Serious bodily or mental harm? Check. Living conditions intended to destroy the group? Fucking check.
ANY of these == genocide. ANY
The intent "to destroy whole or in part" is not there. If Israel had the intent to eradicade the people of Gaza it could have easily done so for a long time. That is not "mental gymnastics" but a matter of intent, as stated in your definition. They take into account that many, many innocent people in Gaza are killed as collaterals in their fight to destroy Hamas, but Israel actually wanting to eradicate the populace would look very different. I'm open to change my view the coming weeks but I don't see Israel eradicating them. I also accept that you vehemently disagree with me on this.
On the other hand Hamas has put the intent of the complete destruction of Israel in its founding charter - one can easily claim that every attack on Israel by Hamas is an act of genocide.
I think the intent is there.
You cannot explain cutting off water and food supplies. You just can't. You don't cut off water without intent.
You don't box in civilians and destroy the only route they can take to get out of the region. It's not possible to do this without intent.
Vehemently disagreements can be healthy but not when people are fucking dying.
The total blockade of water and food is a very sharp sword that I hope will be lifted quickly as it was an overly brutal reaction to the attack. It could have been considered as an immense pressure to release the hostages from Gaza without boming the place but that did not manifest as Israel decided to attack anyways.
Do you think that Egypt is also complicit in the genocide against the people of Gaza, as they are also carrying the blockade?
The blockade as you call it is genocide.
Egypt has a long history in that area - look it up. History is there.
Shame about all the children who actually live there. Are those children not allowed to visit their relatives either?
Where did I mention people who live there? Gaza is in a terrible situation and people should leave until Hamas is removed. Visiting that powder keg is utterly irresponsible.