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Israel shows footage of Hamas killings ‘to counter denial of atrocities' (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 1 year ago by praise_idleness@sh.itjust.works to c/world@lemmy.world

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[-] neeshie@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My understanding is that the “Israel warned them to leave” is misleading. Isreal has been “warning” EVERYONE to leave and repeatedly threatening hospitals because… it would be really bad PR if they blew up (another) hospital.

WHO says they've been ordering every hospital in north gaza to evacuate, and they word it like they're specifically sending this message to the hospitals. https://www.who.int/news/item/14-10-2023-evacuation-orders-by-israel-to-hospitals-in-northern-gaza-are-a-death-sentence-for-the-sick-and-injured

EDIT: disregard the above i misread what you said. Yeah israel is warning everywhere to leave and then bombing everywhere. Regardless, they already hit this hospital, so its reasonable to assume they would hit it again.

They basically are building this claim on the claimed direction being on the outer edge of the projection from their models?

No they're saying the projectile came from approximately the opposite direction as Israel claimed. The red on the compass is the incoming direction.

Which gets to the point that not all OSINT is made equally.

I would trust this org though, they've presented findings in front of the UN, they've received funding from the EU, they seem very legit.

[-] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 year ago

Are they claiming the opposite direction? The graphic is REALLY confusing with the blue line having directionality but the red cone not.

And my point is to not distrust them. There is no reason not to. My point is more to understand where they are coming from. They likely have far fewer government contacts than a lot of media outlets (which is good when you want an impartial org) so can only base things off of "public" information rather than "So Fred at the CIA totally didn't tell me that they have footage saying it was aliens". And, universities tend to have a lot of "We just report the facts" without understanding that people don't know how to interpret the facts.

And the other aspect is just that... True Crime and the ninety bajillion NCIS spinoffs have really warped people's minds. The reality is that there are going to be a LOT of discrepancies in any investigation. For all we knowm the shell/small rocket impacted next to a small dumpster that was vaporized in the explosion but still heavily impacted the directionality of the crater. Or the rocket tumbled or spiraled on its way down. Or the concrete was mixed poorly. Or even just the shell was defective. There are plenty of reasons why the crater might have an ambiguous directionality and so forth.

I am not saying to trust the IDF. Like, seriously, they have been engaging in crimes against humanity for decades and much like with Hamas and the baby decapitations and rape, it is less "did they blow up a hospital" and more 'did they blow up THIS hospital"?. But most of this is based on knee jerk reactions and taking a terrorist organization that STILL is holding people hostage at face value. Keeping in mind that said initial reports from Hams DRASTICALLY exaggerated the damage and loss of life.

And if this were really a smoking gun? Basically the entire OSINT community, more than a few government agencies, and every news outlet on the planet would be banging pot lids rather than talking about the dangers of improperly presenting preliminary evidence in an ongoing situation. The US will never acknowledge that Israel are engaging in genocide (and have been for decades). But CNN and the like will gladly do so if the story is juicy enough.

[-] neeshie@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Are they claiming the opposite direction? The graphic is REALLY confusing with the blue line having directionality but the red cone not.

Yeah they are, I agree it isn't the clearest. But that's what the messages later in the thread say.

I know that there are a lot of discrepancies, but I really don't trust governments, so I don't think its reasonable to trust them unless they provide genuine evidence, not just "bro trust me". We'll have to wait for Israel and Hamas/PIJ/etc. to let independent investigators go inspect the hospital, and yeah idk if that's ever gonna happen. Hamas lied about the death count and the missile fragment, Israel lied (tweeted that they did it then deleted it, posted fake videos, maybe faked phone call). But the evidence available to the public points towards Israel, albeit circumstantially, so I think it's reasonable to say I think Israel probably did it.

Not that any of this matters at the end of the day, more and more palestinian kids are being vaporized by JDAMs every day and nothing we can do changes that.

this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2023

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