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this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2023
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I would take this number always with a grain of salt. Keep in mind that this ministry is run by the Hamas and that it immediately made Israel responsible for the shelling of the Hospital parking lot and put up a very high number of casualties for that said parking lot.
Otherweise Israel’s ambassador is acting quite childish in my oppinion and it surely does not help Israel at all to behave in such a way at the U.N. I also have no answer on how to deal with those terrorists of the Hamas, but casually accepting civilian casualites without much precision is definitely not the right thing to do...
And of course nothing that is happening there in the middle east is happening in a vacuum. Neither Israel or the people of Palestine lived in peace in the last decades.
Even if you halve that number, it still more than 2,500 people so far.
It’s appropriate to call Hamas terrorists and monsters.
It’s also appropriate to call the Israeli response extremely excessive- and appropriate to point out that the powers that are created this mess specifically to gain/keep power in Israel.
Both things can be true.
It’s also worth pointing out, that if you figure for every civilian killed, they’re making another Hamas soldier? Or whatever it is that comes after Hamas?
EDIT: NPR hourly newsupdate quoted seven thousand now. Granted that's probably from the Ministry of Health and suspect... (it was a 30 second blurb while I was driving home.)
It's probably officially more than died in the last gaza invasion, and it's only going to get worse.
I absolute agree!
It's also reasonable to assume that given any number you choose to accept of Palestinian casualties. Statistically speaking, its highly probable that at least half of them have been under 16 years of age, children.
People keep bringing up the parking lot incident as if admitting that there isn't definitive proof it wasn't Israel is the same thing as proof that is was Hamas, and errors in reporting mean nothing reported is credible. Building your propaganda model on split hairs is back-firing badly for you. Humanistic Judaism can not be constrained by the straight-jacket of colonial Zionism.
The Undisputed Facts in Gaza Are Enough by Eric Levitz
Indeed.
And even beyond respecting human rights and international law, I would also like to add the following.
Israel and Biden are showing a total lack of consideration for the hostages or for foreign nationals stuck in Gaza.
In fact, they are giving priority to opportunistic and illegal land grabs in the West Bank above all else.
The West should put way more pressure on Israel to stop the war crimes they are committing right now, and to put more effort in securing the release and safety of our own citizens.
Fact is, that hospital disaster wouldn't have happened if Hamas hadn't slaughtered 1500 people in their homes.
Fact is, Hamas slaughering 1400 people wouldn't have happened if Israel hadn't oppress the Palestine people for more than 50 years. That is what UN chief is saying, because they've been calling out Israel bs for a long time. Israel have the power themselves to stop the cycle of hate, but they didn't, instead they intensified it.
This is also true. It's possible to hold more than two thoughts in your head.
Israel's response is not a force of nature.
No, I agree. I just mean that Hamas wanted to sow chaos and destruction by doing what they did, and well, that's what they got. It's still unclear who fired that rocket, whether it was a misfire or whatever, but if Hamas hadn't attacked, there would be no israeli ground offensive, half of Gaza wouldn't have been ordered to evactuate, and a lot of innocents would still be alive today.
..And Hamas wouldn't have wanted to sow chaos and destruction if Israel had been negotiating in good faith since 1967. But they haven't. So here we are.
Hamas is an entity of Israel's creation, and was funded by Israel to remove support from other, less militant Palestinian organizations.
Zionists argue all the way back to several hundreds years B.C. Not that you can always draw an exactly straight line here, but the point should be that no reaction is inevitable, but that we have organized governments here making these decisions every day.
Well, shit, then argue back before that. What of the Babylonians and the Assyrians that the Israelites genocided? What of their ancestors? Shouldn't they have their land returned to them?
If you go far enough back we're probably all entitled to the land. Let's just do away with these "borders" and make the whole world into a theme park instead.
I'm in favor of annihilation of humans as a species and returning the land to the rightful owners: the plants and (non-human) animals. Surely they can't fuck it up as much as we have.
Mushrooms and molds always being left out…
Which is sad because I’m told they’re pretty fungi
Every time there's been a viable two-state solution presented, Hamas or whoever was the palestinian authroity at the time rejected the proposal because they want all of Israel. That isn't happening. Israel has agreed to a two state solution multiple times! The representatives of palestine never have. If they had, this situation would've stabilized decades ago.
Certainly not in 1995, or in 2014. They've also went back on their own ceasefires with Hamas in 2008 and 2012.
Are you making a justification for a hospital bombing?
How in the fuck did you get that from my comment?
Confirming your complete lack of irony.
What's ironic here? Sorry, I really do have a problem recognizing irony.
While the hospital disaster wouldn't have happened if not for the attack, the attack also wouldn't have happened if not for the blockades, terrorization of Palestinians, demolition of houses, and non stop settler violence everywhere even in the West Bank.
And the blockades wouldn't have happened if the Palestinian people didn't put Hamas in power after, in attempts at peace and a two state solution, Israel demilitarized Gaza. And the wall wouldn't have happened without the suicide bus bombings. I mean we can carry this back. At a minimum we can't stop until WWI. And that's really just a minimum. The crusades would be another point to carry it back to but that seems real far.
Also true. But an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. There needs to be peace. And there can be no peace with Hamas, whose mission it is to completely destroy Israel.
Why do they have that mission? Is it possibly die to decades of Isreal trying to completely destroy Palestine?
Yes, but after they take two men and a kidney, you gotta at least take an eye.
If you think that there's no peace with Hamas, but there's peace with Isn'trael, then you may be delusional. Just ask the West bank.
Understandable, it's a claim made by a partisan faction after all. That said, according to this random X/Twitter account the IDF itself claimed two days ago to have made "over 10,000 targeted strikes" on Gaza since the beginning of the current conflict, so the casualty number given by Hamas works out to about 0.57 fatalities per strike, which doesn't seem like that outlandish a claim to me given how densely populated Gaza is.