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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Sitcom to c/askchapo@hexbear.net

Both Ukraine and Palestine are fighting against an invading force. We can unanimously agree that Palestinians have have been illegally occupied in an open air prison/concentration camp for 75 years. And we seem to agree that Palestine cannot be a perfect victim and it is reasonable that they seek support in Hamas instead of their Israeli oppressors.

Now why can't the same logic be applied to Ukraine? There is absolutely a nazi problem in Ukraine. A nazi problem that needs to be wiped out. But Russia isnt trying to denazify Ukraine, they're trying to maintain borders and resist NATO. But while doing so they are indiscriminately killing civilians and are the aggressors.

Personally, I believe in what Norman Finkelstein has to say about Hezbollah and the red army. Both are not perfect, but I don't care about their politics. I care that they are a resisting force and believe a country should have the right to self determination.

So how are these situations diametrically opposed that you seem to be hostile towards Ukraine but supportive of Palestine?

I don't mean to come off as shaming or judgemental. I genuinely would like to hear your perspective.

Edit: I appreciate all of the thoughtful and patient responses. Even though I might not respond to everything here I am reading all of it. I was operating under a lack of information, which I've never seen any Western media source report on. Ever since leaving reddit, hexbear has been a great source of alternative perspectives and context. It's opened my eyes to a lot of how I've been misled by papers that I've trusted.

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[-] Sitcom 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

So some further questions

  • What are the agreements called so I can research them further?
  • What group of people is Ukraine ethnically cleansing?
[-] KittyBobo@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

Have you heard of Donbas? No shame if you haven't, you have to go out of your way to know much about it. Ukraine has been shelling civilians in Donbas since 2014. The people there and in Crimea are ethnically Russian, that's why they want to be independent from Ukraine and why Ukraine hates them for it.

[-] Sitcom 1 points 1 year ago

Nope, I did not and will read about that further. Asking questions to learn :)

[-] MF_COOM@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

sankara-salute the good kind of lib

[-] Catradora_Stalinism@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

Hexbear we found a good one do not be mean to them they are precious

[-] Babs@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

This might be helpful as well, a language map of Ukraine I found on wikipedia. The red areas are the areas with a majority of Russian speakers, in Crimea and the southeast. It's a census from 2001 too, so it's not like this is a recent thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Ukraine#/media/File:UkraineNativeLanguagesCensus2001detailed-en.png

Here's another wikipedia map of the area called Donbas. It lines up pretty well with the Russian speakers in the first map. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donbas#/media/File:Donetsian_Region_in_Ukraine_(claims_hatched).svg

Now here's where things get complicated. Eastern Ukraine and Crimea have a pretty stark political split that also follows these lines. Here's an election map from 2010. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%94%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80_2010_%D0%BF%D0%BE_%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%85-en.png

Yanukovich, the blue guy, was overthrown in the Euromaiden coup in 2014.

Interestingly, in 2019 a certain Russian speaking presidential candidate from Eastern Ukraine ran for president and won, with his strongest political support coming from these same regions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Ukrainian_presidential_election#/media/File:2019_Ukrainian_presidential_election,_round_2.svg

I don't claim to fully understand the history of the country, or the various coups/revolutions, or even really what modern Ukraine is like, but whatever is going on it probably has something to do with this.

[-] Flyberius@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

Further to this, the agreements were the Minsk agreements.

[-] sharedburdens@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What group of people is Ukraine ethnically cleansing?

Ukranian citizens who are non-Ukranian speakers have been getting targeted for years leading up to this by language laws, this hasn't just been ethnic Russians but also Greeks, Romani, Hungarians.

This then turned into routinely shelling the parts of Ukraine where these civilians predominantly live, and was leading into a full invasion before the SMO happened.

[-] Huldra@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

The Russian speaking minority population in the east of Ukraine, particularly in the breakaway republics that formed after 2014, who are subject to policies to suppress the Russian language as well as the republics being subjected to prolonged bombing campaigns and attacks by far right militias.

[-] GrainEater@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

@Sitcom@monyet.cc in addition, it's important to note that the coup in 2014 was planned and funded by the US government, and that both the integration of Crimea into the Russian Federation (by overwhelming popular vote) and the creation of the DPR and LPR was a reaction to this

[-] RNAi@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

Minsk agreements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements

Yes I know wikipedia is garbage

this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2023
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