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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Sitcom to c/askchapo@hexbear.net

Both Ukraine and Palestine are fighting against an invading force. We can unanimously agree that Palestinians have have been illegally occupied in an open air prison/concentration camp for 75 years. And we seem to agree that Palestine cannot be a perfect victim and it is reasonable that they seek support in Hamas instead of their Israeli oppressors.

Now why can't the same logic be applied to Ukraine? There is absolutely a nazi problem in Ukraine. A nazi problem that needs to be wiped out. But Russia isnt trying to denazify Ukraine, they're trying to maintain borders and resist NATO. But while doing so they are indiscriminately killing civilians and are the aggressors.

Personally, I believe in what Norman Finkelstein has to say about Hezbollah and the red army. Both are not perfect, but I don't care about their politics. I care that they are a resisting force and believe a country should have the right to self determination.

So how are these situations diametrically opposed that you seem to be hostile towards Ukraine but supportive of Palestine?

I don't mean to come off as shaming or judgemental. I genuinely would like to hear your perspective.

Edit: I appreciate all of the thoughtful and patient responses. Even though I might not respond to everything here I am reading all of it. I was operating under a lack of information, which I've never seen any Western media source report on. Ever since leaving reddit, hexbear has been a great source of alternative perspectives and context. It's opened my eyes to a lot of how I've been misled by papers that I've trusted.

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[-] ksynwa@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

When I say I don't support the Ukrainian resistance, I don't mean I would like the Russian army to mow down Ukrainians. It is rather an acknowledgement of the historical realities that are ignored by mainstream Western presses, namely:

  • NATO is an imperialist military and intelligence alliance that exists to preserve American hegemony.
  • NATO and the US want to weaken and destroy Russia. Since they have not been successful in doing it from within like they were with the USSR, they are enacting a policy of encirclement by having more and more European countries join NATO which allows them to have a tangible military presence very close to Russian borders.
  • Ukraine is currently a Western ally only because of the US-backed coup Maidan coup that removed the existing government and installed pro-US leaders in their stead. Armed neo-nazis played a significant role in this colour revolution.
  • Areas like Lugansk, Donbass which do not accept the outcome of this coup have been targets of military aggression from Ukraininan neo-nazis. They have been shelling these regions since 2014 and do not mind targeting civilians.
  • Ukraine and NATO have tried their best to not reach any sort of peace agreement. Minsk agreements were done in bad faith as Angela Merkel admitted. Zelenskyy campaigned on a platform of seeking peace with Russia for his presidency but allied with neo-nazis upon assuming office.

Because of these points, there is no positive peace to be achieved in the region by cheering for a war and supplying arms to Ukraine. They are fighting a proxy war for NATO to weaken Russia militarily, economically and diplomatically. The best solution would be to seek peace and ceasefire agreements between Russia and Ukraine. Despite what the Western media says about the Russian leadership, a deal like this is definitely possible. The only problem is that Russia will likely stipulate that Ukraine never be allowed to join NATO and that they be allowed to keep at least some of the conquered territories. This demand is not as outrageous as Western media would lead you to believe. The conquered territories are already Russian-speaking and sympathise with Russia. They have also been targets ethnic repression like legislations to prevent them from speaking Russian. Ukraine's Western masters are not interested in peace anyway so the war rages on. But the narrative that Russia invaded Ukraine unprovoked and that they are trying to conquer territories because they are an imperialist force following a Duginist doctrine is maliciously incorrect. It is really baffling why Westerners hold this point of view there is no evidence to support for this except for allegations of vague ties between Putin and Dugin.

Some people say "Russia could just leave if they wanted to". This implies that positive peace can be achieved if they stopped the invasion. But this does not remove the element of the existential threat that they face from an expanding NATO encirclement.

To sum it up, I don't support the Western narrative of Ukraine being a smol bean victim of an unprovoked invasion. I support peace that is positive and that can only be achieved by removing Western meddling from the region.

On the other hand, Israel's expansion is a naked quest for territory and removing Arabs from the region. There isn't much common with the Russian invasion of Ukraine here. It is easy and straightforward to support any uprising that resists settler-colonial genocide.

this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2023
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