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Turkey's Erdogan says Hamas is not a terrorist organisation
(www.reuters.com)
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this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2023
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Proper reflection of all the facts should reveal that a great deal of wrongdoing has been done by both Israelis and Palestinians over the past century. Not sure how someone could miss that without very biased news consumption.
Regardless, if you begin to use the same tactics as your enemy, you become as bad as your enemy. Not better, not worse, just ... as bad. You have to take different kinds of actions from your enemy if you wish to be a different kind of person than them.
Is this biased? Or maybe I should read corporate owned, state department controlled CNN to get the “facts.”
Would it be difficult to accept that perhaps both are biased?
I know that, do you?
It would have been very difficult to propose if I wasn't aware of it. Considering I'm consistently critical of both of the sides, including my own, I think I'm proving it pretty well too.
It's a good sign when you can criticize your own side. My side being currently pro-Israeli, as I imagine you've gathered. I can be pro-Israeli for this one incident, and then switch to being anti-Israeli again after HAMAS is dealt with. And unless Israel gets real peaceful real quick and frees Palestine, I will become anti-Israeli again.
But, I'm just slightly more anti-HAMAS first.
I actually support Macron's proposal for a coalition against HAMAS, as I think a large international coalition force going in instead of the IDF would be far, far more likely to result in a lot more survival, and maybe even eventual freedom and peace for the Palestinians. The IDF is just too aggressive, too indiscriminate, and too willing to take the land. A coalition force going in instead would deprive the Israelis of a lot of their leverage though.
It's complicated. You know? No easy answers that let you also stay a decent person. Which means a difficult answer is necessary, unless we want to compromise on our values. So maybe since we in the rest of the world helped cause this problem through our complicated histories and general unwillingness to really get deeply involved to help, we should also be willing to bleed to fix it. Together.
My current thinking, anyway.
And 2,000 dead Palestinian children doesn’t change your mind. So much for Consequentialism.
How can that change my mind when HAMAS does the same? What sense does that make? Please, explain it to me.
Two sides. Both kill kids. Two sides same.
Where did I go wrong? Please explain.
Can you count? At what number do Palestinian deaths mean more? 5,000? 10,000? 100,000? Israel kills thousands. Hamas kills 200. Both sides! They are not the same.
You should keep the whole count, verified, not just count some things. That's like the definition of bias.
You’re deflecting. You know Israel has killed more. Your own bias is showing.
No. I don't know how many people have died, I can only read reporting that gives estimates, and the estimates come from sides in a war. A side fighting a war cannot be considered a trustworthy source, as winning the war is considered more important.
None of us can know. What you have inside you is not "knowledge". It's faith. It's based on a feeling you have, not evidence you can be truly certain of, because evidence that reliable does not exist.
Life is hard my friend. Sometimes it's so hard, it literally has no good answers.
Pithy aphorisms don’t change the fact that Israel is the current aggressor, disproportionately dealing death. Eventually the world will see the truth.
Finally, I can agree with you. Israel is the current aggressor, that is true. Personally, I think they should be stopped from attacking Gaza asap, and a large international coalition army assembled in their place, to protect both the sides from each other. War criminals from both sides would need to be arrested and stand trial.
Tools up to and including a ground invasion would be necessary for any individual that refused to surrender for their trial.
I’m glad we agree.