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this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2023
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Expressing anti-israel beliefs does not mean you hate jewish people. We are protesting the very clear and apparent genocide of the Palestinian people. Only those with power and influence are blind to this ongoing atrocity and it is shameful. We don't care if our governments are buddies, you don't commit mass murder.
The problem is that there are a lot of people who are conflating Israel's actions with any Jewish person. They have been saying that Jewish temples, Jewish owned businesses, Jewish homes, or Jews on college campuses are valid targets.
As an American Jew, I'm (unfortunately) used to anti-semitism coming from the right. Seeing Nazis marching openly while Republicans court them is an all too common event. What's shocked me is the anti-semitism from the left. I'm left feeling boxed in. Feeling like an attack can come from either side and nobody would come to my defense. What's worse, I've spoken up for causes with many of these people and now they've turned against me just because I'm Jewish.
Others on the left have attempted to gaslight me by claiming that there is no anti-semitism. Still others have said that I'm not allowed to complain about anti-semitic threats because the people in Gaza have it worse. This is like telling someone with a broken leg that they aren't entitled to sympathy for their injury because someone else has cancer which is worse. It is dismissive and lacks any empathy. Does only the person/group who has it the absolute worst get to complain about their conditions?
Oh, and this hurts the Palestinian cause as well. I'm sympathetic to what the Palestinians are going through. I don't support everything Israel does (though, as an American Jew, I have zero say in Israeli policies). However, I don't want to march with a group that expresses violence towards me for being Jewish.
If someone criticizes Israel's actions, they're not being anti-semitic. If they advocate for less aid to Israel, they're not being anti-semitic. If they're attacking all Jews, though, they ARE being anti-semitic.
Does 1500 Israeli dead count as mass murder?
Obviously. Can we talk about the various and ongoing war crimes of Israel now? One atrocity doesn't give you the right to commit a much bigger one. If I punch you in the face I'm an asshole; if you kill my whole family in response you're a fucking monster.
Well, it sure depends doesn't it? First of all, let's correct your analogy. If you kill my family, then run behind your own family and yell I'M RELOADING FOR THE NEXT KILLING, that would be a more accurate analogy. In that case, I sure as shit have the right to defend myself. Israel told the Palestinians to get out of the way. Hamas told them to stay and die in their homes. If Palestinians would rather listen to a terrorist organization, if they would rather defend Hamas with their life, then they are literally terrorist supporters and they deserve what they get.
You realize launching rockets from civilian infrastructure, like Hamas does, is a war crime? Taking civilian hostages, war crime. Using civilians as human shields? Also war crime. Did you want to skip past those too? Man, Israel just can't catch a break with you.
Your version of the analogy implies equal damage on both sides. That is not the case, already Israel has killed way more than Hamas did. If you insist on making the first offense killing your family, it would be like killing my whole neighbourhood in response.
And then bombed both the routes to the "safe" place and the "safe" place itself, yes.
Yeah man they're all war crimes and awful things to do. Now let's do Israel. Here is a list.
Collective punishment? Check.
Destruction and appropriation of property? Check.
Unlawful deportation/confinement? Check.
Attacks against civilian population? Check.
Attacks against civilian objects? Check.
Attacking undefended buildings? Check.
"Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects" ? Check
"The transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory"? Big check.
"Intentionally using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare" ? Sounds pretty familiar, check.
Would you like to skip past these or will you admit that this is all also disgusting and inhumane?
An eye for an eye retribution is all you understand? This isn't about equality. This is about removing the ability for a terrorist group to bring harm against a sovereign nation. If your neighborhood wants to harbor terrorists, then they're going to get blown the fuck up.
This is contested information. I've heard that Hamas was doing the bombings. Between the two sides, why would Israel warn civilians to evacuate, then bomb them and face international condemnation? Meanwhile, Hamas needs civilians as human shields so if the populace evacuates, Hamas loses their defense. Bombing their own citizens (which they're known to do) and blaming it on Israel benefits them. So between the two, one side majorly benefits and the other side not at all.
Since you misquoted the Geneva convention, let's fix that.
Israel has justification and are not wantonly destroying property. They are attacking military targets. If it was wanton, they would destroy all of Gaza instead of evacuating the north.
Shocking how you always leave out the part that justifies what Israel is doing.
Nope, Israel is attacking military targets. The civilians need to gtfo of the way. If they don't, that doesn't mean Israel is committing war crimes. They're justified to destroy military targets regardless. That's how war works. Here's another war crime: Utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations;
Oops, you left that part out again.
And again, you leave out the part that justifies Israel. You're intentionally lying to defame Israel. Sorry your feelings are hurt, but that doesn't mean Israel has to roll over and die.
Israel isn't occupying Gaza, nor do they intend to. They're there to destroy Hamas and leave.
Not sure about this one, but since you've lied about all the others, I'm not inclined to take your word for it. In fact, I'm more likely to believe you're wrong since you've been wrong about the others.
If you think all of the examples we see on a day to day basis are justified by military necessity then that's your view. I disagree.
I'm not going to go through each one.
Where should they go? Where is safe in Gaza?
You emphasize this "which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated" as if you cannot describe Israel's entire offensive so far in exactly these terms. Gains minimal, civilian deaths enormous.
Ignoring the West Bank?
This is the weakest bullshit I've ever heard in my life. If you can't find it in your heart to call out the intentional starvation of innocent citizens I don't know how you can look at yourself in the mirror.
You quoted all the others and added bits, did you not check this one? Get the fuck out of here.
That's your opinion. I don't think Israel agrees.
I don't know what agreements have been made about the west bank, so I can't say. It seems you're talking about events that have been happening before Oct 7. But, the original purpose was trying to show that Israel has been committing war crimes in Gaza. To that end, it doesn't seem that they meet the criteria.
It's not clear, but keep crying. Hamas takes food and supplies from the civilians. It's not clear that Israel must supply Palestinians of food while their own government denies them the same. And, given how willful you were to misinterpret the previous accusations, I'm not inclined to believe that you're correctly interpreting the convention. The latest I've heard is that 100 trucks of humanitarian aid are allowed in each day. How much food and supplies does an attacking country have to supply to the civilians of the country they're attacking? Is Russia supposed to be supplying Ukrainians or can we add that to their war crimes?
Not supplying =/= blockading.
Anyway thanks for the chat
Yes, and as I said before; If you do not wish to live with demons, do not force others to live in hell.
Its senseless and sad these civilians are dying. But this is also the result of the "open air prison" Israel bragged so much about. Monsters eating monsters does not absolve them of their nature.
So it's Israel's fault they are terrorists? It's Israel's fault none of the other Arab countries want the Palestinians?
Let's say Israel does.... whatever it is you think they should do. Will that stop the organization that has sworn to kill all Jews and destroy Israel? After having 1500 of their civilians brutalized and murdered, Israel should... negotiate with the terrorists and give them land?
Homie, we are fifty years deep in the shit now. There is no miracle that will heal these people but time. Hamas was calling for a cease-fire. Idk why they would do that if they want to "Kill Da Jews" like you said, but thats what they wanted not five days ago. So idk man, maybe we should not shoot each other. Maybe we shouldn't confine other people to open air prisons. Maybe we should pull our heads out of our asses and realize we are all we have.
There was a ceasefire in place on Oct 6th, wasn't there?
Netanayhu rejected a cease fire, if that is what you're referring to. There has been no ceasefires that I can find. I even searched "gaza ceasefire Oct 6th 2023"
There was a ceasefire as of 2021
You can place the marker where you want but it goes back so much further than that. Everyone has traded their eyes at this point. The bad blood ascends our lives and that of our parents. The Palestinians have suffered while the Israelis have prospered and subjugated. I don't know what angle you want me to look at here. What Hamas did was shitty, but this is what you fucking get when you cage people like animals.
Now you're excusing terrorism. It's all Israel's fault, isn't it? Israel made Gaza, Israel made the Gazans hate them, because Israel's master plan was to create terrorists, finance that terrorist group, knowing the terrorists would eventually attack, and then Israel could finally kill all Palestinians, by warning them to evacuate, even though Israel is controlling Hamas to counter-propagandize the Palestinian populace and tell them to shelter in place, because that's how Israel maximizes civilian deaths. Not even the terrorists putting Israeli babies in ovens are responsible for their actions. Israel was behind that too!
If Palestinians laid down their weapons, there could be peace. If Israel laid down their weapons, there would be no Israel.
If those 1500 dead Israelis enabled or assisted in the oppression of Palestinians, then no, their deaths do not count