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submitted 10 months ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

Highlights: Joe Biden and top aides have discussed the likelihood that Benjamin Netanyahu’s political days are numbered — and the president has conveyed that sentiment to the Israeli prime minister in a recent conversation.

Biden has gone so far as to suggest to Netanyahu that he should think about lessons he would share with his eventual successor, the two administration officials added.

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[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

FTA:

"It’s not only Israel’s leaders who are using such language. An interviewee on the pro-Netanyahu Channel 14 called for Israel to “turn Gaza to Dresden.” Channel 12, Israel’s most-watched news station, published a report about left-leaning Israelis calling to “dance on what used to be Gaza.” Meanwhile, genocidal verbs—calls to “erase” and “flatten” Gaza—have become omnipresent on Israeli social media. In Tel Aviv, a banner reading “Zero Gazans” was seen hanging from a bridge."

[-] FlowVoid@lemmy.world -3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Ok, but you can see similar public sentiment in any war. In fact, the general public in states neighboring Israel sometimes use similar language about erasing Israel.

Widespread expressions of hatred towards an enemy and wishing to see them suffer is as old as war itself. It is not the same as actually committing genocide. At a minimum, genocide requires an actual plan.

Is the Israeli leadership actually planning to "erase" Gazans, or just Hamas? I don't know yet. But the former is definitely not the goal of Biden or der Leyden, and Israeli leadership has definitely been made aware of that.

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

I get the feeling there's not much that will convince you. Could you tell me what would be an unequivocal example of what a genocide would look like to you in this instance?

[-] FlowVoid@lemmy.world -3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

If leaders announce (or secretly devise) a plan to resettle Palestinians, kill all Palestinians and/or ethnically cleanse Gaza.

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

So nothing less than Bibi saying, "I'm gonna do some genocide" would convince you.

[-] FlowVoid@lemmy.world -3 points 10 months ago

Genocide requires a plan, either open or in secret.

And leaders who commit genocide are surprisingly open about it. Putin was open about his plan to erase Ukraine, Milosevic openly removed non-Serbs from Greater Serbia, China openly tries to get rid of Uyghirs...

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago

One comment in isolation can be hand-waved away as not representative. The Professor assembled a plausible case that there is a plan, or at least a consensus, to commit genocide. The examples you cited aren’t very useful, Israel has to moderate its language as it needs the support of the West.

[-] FlowVoid@lemmy.world -4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I disagree. The article cherry picked vague statements from three leaders. It ignored other very pointed statements that condemned any attempt at ethnic cleansing or genocide by Israel.

Biden in particular has made it very clear that he expects Palestinian civilians to be treated as any other civilians in wartime, and that there must be a future for them in Gaza.

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

Your second paragraph explains your first.

[-] FlowVoid@lemmy.world -2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Then perhaps you could explain it to me.

this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2023
175 points (97.3% liked)

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