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this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023
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As I said in an earlier comment:
"Hamas is not Palestinians. Hamas steals aid meant for Palestinians. They embed themselves in civilian areas. They take investments that other groups make to improve Palestinian lives, and dismantle them to use for weaponry. They stockpile food, medicine, and water and don't share it with civilians when Israel cuts off those crucial resources.
The leaders of Hamas are rich fucks living cushy lives in the UAE and could not care less about Palestinians. This isn't some freedom fighter group that's out of options. It's terrorists who purposely co-opt language from peaceful protestors to make them sound like extremists."
Don't confuse Palestinians with Hamas, they deserve so much better than that.
WOW, Hamas sure don't sound like lovely folk. It's very sad that they're the only choice Palestinians have. of course, ignoring the option to make peace with the bulldozer currently wrecking your home, and the soldiers about to burn your field and abduct members of your family to be tortured in their prisons.
I don't think I'd word it that way. Hamas is hardly looking out for them, and we both know Israel isn't at all. There are no good guys in this war. They're all using the Palestinians in some way or another -- or bombing them. The only good people are the civilians caught between all the warring parties.
I understand what you're saying though. Hamas is no freedom fighter group and doesn't deserve any defense you'd give one -- but I can understand why a Palestinian would throw in their lot with them. Like you said, they don't have much of a choice. The other alternative is just not picking any side at all, and trying to just survive.
I suspect however that Hamas doesn't enjoy as much Palestinian support as they'd like. They've had to crack down on people protesting against them in the somewhat recent past. I think if Hamas were eliminated, we'd see a lot of them quite happy, and hopeful about the future.
We can hope, at least. The Palestinians need to be free to govern themselves, without being under Hamas' rule nor being bombed constantly by Israel.
Yes, we do agree on all of that, but knowing that there are no good guys solves nothing. As you've said Hamas is at least not trying to kill and displace Palestinians, out of the two choices Palestinians would absolutely not prefer to be at the mercy of the occupation government.
Palestinians are powerless, and at this point are just cycling through everything around them and blaming it. First blaming the occupation, then the Fatah government for not taking action, and now Hamas for taking action. Everything around them is using them at best, or trying to get rid of them.
No matter what they change their situation will stay the same, because while they are (or were) able to change who governs them, the occupation is a constant thing. If it's not wrecking their houses and murdering them, it's blockading them and making any development impossible.
Now what you're suggesting is for the occupation government to take Hamas' place, which will make the situation better somehow. This only makes sense if you think that the situation in the West bank is better than the situation in Gaza.
That's not likely, but yeah, we can at least hope.
Not at all. I want the UN to govern the area as a protectorate while the pillars of government are built, and a global coalition serving as the military. Discourage Israel from bombing unless they want to kill soldiers from all nations, and build up the functions necessary for a healthy democracy.
Even if this was to happen, do you think killing soldiers of every nation would discourage them? That's just another disgusting act to add to the pile.
The UN would absolutely not be able to protect Palestine from sabotage and sanctions when the US is on the sabotaging side.
I think willfully killing Western soldiers would very quickly end Western support for them. They may not feel discouraged from killing them, but they are as hell would be discouraged by the consequences.
You're right about the second point though. The UN wouldn't be able to do a ton, as much as I'd like it to be otherwise.