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this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023
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Unfortunately it seems that they will get what they want.
Israel has been bombarded with nearly 10,000 rockets, ballistic missiles and bomb carrying drones over the last month - from Gaza to the centre, Lebanon to the north and Yemen and Iran to the south. In addition there are almost daily terror attacks coming from the west bank.
There are civilian fatalities every day there. A school was recently hit and destroyed from a ballistic missile hit. Thankfully the city that was hit moved to online studies due to the threats so it was empty.
The only reason we don't see a death toll of thousands of Israelis is due to extreme defence measurements including the evacuation of more than 250,000 Israelis from the north and centre.
The whole situation is just escalating by the day and the massive attacks are fuelling Israelis rage.
Both the Houthis and Hezbollah hinted a massive attack tomorrow. Another serious hit to Israeli civilians will send this whole thing over a cliff.
The IDF rarely shows mercy. I don’t really understand what the surrounding countries are thinking. If they want to escalate things to remove the status quo they certainly are. But at what cost?
Both sides are religious fanatics. You can't reason with a fanatic
This isn't about religion, at least not anymore. Palestinians have been oppressed by Israelis because they want the land. Palestinians want Israel dead because they've been oppressed and marginalized.
It is also about religion. Radical Jewish think they are chosen by the God over others. Radical Islamist think killling infidels or in name of the God is best outcome, if kids die they died for God and will be rewarded . Take away religion, radicals will have much harder time find people to die in their cause.
This is a very simplistic take on a very complex situation. I have friends in Tel Aviv, I've visited their homes. Some were raised very orthodox jew in Jerusalem, didn't even have internet most of their lives. I've been to the Western Wall and seen the Jewish people praying, while the Muslims watch outside the gate (they each have their own time they can go in).
Talking with all my friends, the answer is always "it's complicated". It's only religion so far as "we want to occupy the same space". It kickstarted it, but that could have been anything -- oil, water, ports, whatever. But since it turned to land, it became very politically motivated. Who can powerful countries ally with for key tactical military presence? For the people living there, how can I feel more safe?
I'm kind of rambling, but there's way too much to talk about in just a comment. But yea, the answer is that it's very complicated.
My post was specifically about radicals. Radicalized people will die willingly or / and will break all possible boundaries you can imagine. They are near impossible to reason with.
True dat
There have been religiously motivated attacks against Israelis since the creation of Israel.
This take requires complete ignorance over the last 2000 years of history.
I think they're trying to get Israel to act in such a way that they finally lose the American support. Israel currently gets to do whatever it wants without consequence because the US will seemingly back them unconditionally. Also, many countries, people, and organizations are afraid to criticize Israel because they get called anti-Semitic. But I think that only works while Israel can manage to convince people it's the "good one".
The whole world condems Israel, it is only America's issue.
Germany and the UK??
Oh those invaders country. No expectation from me.
"The whole world..."
"Oh, but not those parts!"
A lot of the world has issues criticizing Israel, and anything they're told to support in general really.
You can’t underestimate the USs support of anything. It’s still a juggernaut.
Meh, it cant even beat China.
Those radicalized will be happy to die in name of their God. If civilian dies depending on their religion they will be rewarded by their God or infidels will be punished. So in their mind as long as many people die its a win.
It's like asking what the allies were thinking invading Normandy. Like, yes it's a bad idea, but it needed to happen, and trying it once gets you one try closer to the 1000th try that actually works. Somebody's gotta do it, so why not us?
That is one of the worst comparisons I have ever seen.
Normandy was an strategic attack at a high cost.
This conflict is so one sided that people here like to call it genocide.
No, it literally is a genocide. Which is why something as bold as Normandy is required.
You mention the ordinance going one way but not the other and claim Gaza is a crater because they don't have as much defenses. This is simply not true, Israel has saturated Gaza 2000lbs at a time in such quantity only a nation backed by a world power could. Give Palestine the same iron dome system and Gaza would still be a crater because Israel will always have more. Similarly Israel claims 12000 successful strikes, meaning more than 12000 were attempted and I can guarantee they aren't surplus ussr unguided bullshit.
There hasn't been a major attack on Israel since the "war" began.
Duh, there's probably going to be one more or less every month indefinitely. Knowingly bombing civilians doesn't exactly engender good feelings.
I'm not sure I understand what you tried to say here. I was referring to Hamas's leaders motivations and the current climate in Israel, not to Israel's actions in Gaza.
That's just incorrect.
Yes my point is you can't analyze one without the other, it's a two way street with an extremely steep power disparity. It's a middle aged man repeatedly punching a child in the face because the child slapped at them.
It's not, there have been attacks but not one single one that is on the same scale but you have hundreds dead in strikes literally every day or every other day in Gaza.
Ed: ie 1400 dead vr 14000.
That's a hugely inaccurate analogy. This is an armed conflict. People are dying and this child rampaged through the aged man's internationally recognised property lines and committed the most horrendous atrocities the world has seen in 60 years.
But, again, I'm not sure I understand what this has to do with what I originally said.
Not at all, it examples a disparity of force and that disparity is just as disparit regardless of the fact it's an armed conflict. Correct, people are dying, 100x more Palestinians than isrealis the vast majority of which are under 18 and no that's not a made up number either. Property lines the same international community admits and admonishes Israel for violating and the very same that have says time and time again gazan occupation is a crime by international law.
I've already said why, you're ignoring context. You simply can't address solely one side in this conflict as both are aggressors both routinely off civilians but Israel at the moment is up by literally 100x more.
It almost sounds like you're justifying Hamas's actions.
I fully understand the context, I'm just not sure I understand what it has to do with a post I wrote about the potential escalation to a regional war.
As tragic as it is, not everything is about the suffering of the Palestinians.
How, I've made comparisons and pointed out disparity, stop projecting because you're certainly trying to absolve Israel if I'm " justifying Hamas".
How doesn't it? The escalation is 100% Israel at this point, even other nations that did back action are now backing out because hospital and school strikes leaving piles of noncombatants doesn't look good.
Nor is it in fact all about the suffering of isrealis, I do love a pot calling a kettle black though.
Justifying - I was referring to this (on a side note - Israel isn't occupying Gaza for nearly 20 years now).
Ok, so if understand you correctly, you're saying that due to the disproportionality between Israel and Hamas military capabilities, the regional Islamist extremists are joining in to balance the playing field?
Maybe. Personally I don't think so. I don't think any of these organisation really cares about the Palestinians, but they do see an opportunity.
I reckon they think that the world and Israel is so busy with Gaza that they can get away with it, similar to what Putin is now doing in Ukraine.
That was a direct response to your mention of property lines. International courts disagree with you and the constant public invasion and destruction of illegal Israeli settlements in both the West Bank and Gaza are pretty good evidence that you're wrong.
Correct, just as the us and others have backed Israel and provided support.
You're probably right, Israel certainly didn't care about them and Iran and the like are joining in because it benefits them any country would do and have done the same.
They don't care, the us will never back away from Israel. They see the bases there as integral to foreign defense. It's not particularly well known but the us operates a mountain top surveillance base in Israel which is a not unsubstantial part of why Iran is pissed.