477
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
477 points (98.4% liked)
politics
19148 readers
1922 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
No, I'm talking about law. Administrative law is set by the administrative branch of the government as delegated by congress. It's not codified, but is the policy and procedures of those administrative bodies, which has the force of law. Breaching those policies and procedures, which is what Trump did, is in violation of administrative law.
A legal duty is a more nebulous concept that is generally based on legal precedent. Usually has to do with something related to torts. You can't just take someone to court for an novel legal duty and expect that to magically stick criminally. It needs to be codified by congress or created in administrative law first.
If it's a law they have a legal duty, your hedging doesn't particularly make sense.
legal
1 of 2
adjective
le·gal ˈlē-gəl
Synonyms of legal
1
: of or relating to law
She has many legal problems.
2
a
: deriving authority from or founded on law : DE JURE
a legal government
b
: having a formal status derived from law often without a basis in actual fact : TITULAR
a corporation is a legal but not a real person
c
: established by law
especially : STATUTORY
the legal test of mental capacity—K. C. Masteller
3
: conforming to or permitted by law or established rules
The referee said it was a legal play.
Fishing in this lake is legal.
4
: recognized or made effective by a court of law as distinguished from a court of equity
5
: of, relating to, or having the characteristics of the profession of law or of one of its members
a bottle … that some legal friend had sent him—J. G. Cozzens
6
: created by the constructions of the law
A legal fiction is something assumed in law to be a fact regardless of the truth of that assumption.
legal
2 of 2
noun
: one that conforms to rules or the law
I'm not getting into semantics, I'm talking about the original post I replied to, namely
Which is talking about a duty in derived sense, not a codified duty.
He does, nothing you've offered implies or states otherwise.
No, it has to do with a law or rather a series of them an oath to office and an oath to maintain national secrets.
That's the definition of a derived duty, and it isn't what I'd call "law."
18 usc 1924 Is a law that created a duty, a legal duty.
(a)
Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.
You say you don't want to play semantics but that's your entire argument.
You actually don't understand my argument. What you're talking about now is WHY I think trump broke the law. It has nothing to do with oaths of office. Oaths of office do NOT create a legal duty. That code, as well as the administrative law around
from that code is what creates a legal duty.
I understand your argument, don't be patronizing.
No I don't care what you think about Trump or if he broke the law.
It does, you swear to follow the law they make you take it specifically so they can increase penalties, it quite literally increases legal responsibility.
There is no "administrative branch" in the US government.
That I'll concede. Can you guess what I meant though.