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Huge pro-Palestinian London march calls for permanent ceasefire
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
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That's cool and all, but how can they possibly resolve their differences when they have fundamentally genocidal governments?
So, the idea that peace is unattainable because both sides don't want it is basically Israeli propaganda. That hasn't been true since at least 1993. Even Hamas has accepted permanent ceasefires (specifically one in 2008 and another in 2012) before, which stipulated that Israel would lift the blockade. Well that didn't happen, and Gaza kept getting airstriked at the same frequency (even though due to Hamas's efforts rocket attacks went down to next to nothing), so after a long time (over a year in the 2012 case) hostilities resumed from the Hamas side. I'm saying from the Hamas side because in both cases after signing ceasefires Israel just... Didn't cease firing, let alone lift the blockade.
Thanks for the details, what any the Hamas charter calling for the obliteration of Israel?
It seems like another case of 'the fundamentalist crazies' ruining it for the 'moderates' that just want progress, but that's wrapping it all up very black and white and in aware generations of horror keep bringing it back to mass casualties (mostly of innocents, it seems)
Israel is a European settler colony founded by imperial mandate, so yeah, it needs to be abolished. That doesn't require horror or mass casualties or "obliteration", though. It would be entirely possible to administratively abolish Israel without any need for violence, and all of Israel's citizens could be welcome to become Palestinian in a new multi-ethnic/multi-religious democracy.
So this interpretation is naive in several aspects:
1-The only time Israel seriously took part in peace negotiations was in the Oslo accords (everything that came after, including Camp David 2000, was farces), and the PM was assassinated for it. It's Israeli fundamentalists who ruined it for everyone.
2-Israel actively funded Hamas, and keeps supporting them (they also knowingly created the current status quo) because they don't want Palestinians to have a representative who can negotiate for peace and a Palestinian state. The current division of Palestinian between Palestinian Israelis, East Jerusalemites, West Bankers and Gazans is an intentional part of Israel's Apartheid (or brutal occupation, take your pick) system, and they're not about to let it go away.
3-The West Bank, where Hamas has barely any presence, is currently being genocided (or ethnically cleansed, again take your pick). If the West Bank can't have peace, then everything about the continuance of the conflict being Hamas's fault is nonsense, also known as Israeli propaganda.
Also BTW, the blockade of Gaza started in 2005. That's before Hamas was elected.
Would Hamas be genocidal as you call it if they weren't living in an open air prison?
It's not like they have a nation that they can work towards its prosperity.
Yeah it's an ideological thing.
The only party that ideologically wants genocide is israeli Zionists.
As far as I understand it, the Hamas charter specifically details Israel and the Jews being destroyed. I'm not in any way defending either government, it seems that they both need to go.
And then there's the other neighbours who also aren't keen on Israel...
AFAIK it got a bit less extreme in 2017 (still calling for the destruction of Israel, but that's calling for a one-state solution, not the genocide of Israel).
They can't - its like asking America to stop the gun violence overnight. Its not a decision of one person, its a hugely complicated, cultural based issue.
Indeed... I'm aware in being idealistic or naïve