555
Car dealers say they can’t sell EVs, tell Biden to slow their rollout
(arstechnica.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
555 points (94.0% liked)
Technology
60062 readers
1820 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
You can't sell EV's because:
1: too expensive to buy new 2: if you live anywhere that's not a big city, or you have a garage, there is basically no electric chargers for you.
The city I live in (~30k people) has 6 chargers total. None of them are superchargers. Wait times are already a sticking point in the best case, nevermind what the wait times would be if everyone where I'm at had an electric car tomorrow. The whole downtown would maybe gridlock just because of people waiting.
For comparison, there are probably 2-300 gas pumps around the city. 5 gas stations within 5 minutes of where I am, all with at least 8 pumps, all well used. People are not going to get EV's unless there is an infrastructure that is equivalent to gas around where they live.
And that infrastructure is not gonna be fun to get going.
The average person living in the city can't really use them with street parking, can't always guarantee a spot after all, and installing a personal one for yourself all but requires a personal garage, which locks out the people who live in poorer housing.
Lots of people in my city and I suspect many others live in trailer parks with low/fixed incomes, having just a simple driveway. Where are they gonna get the thousand or two to install a Level 2 charging station? My mom and dad certainly don't have the money.
Expecting the EV companies to make the infrastructure with the money they get just from selling EV's is gonna turn into one gigantic chicken-and-egg problem. The government is going to have to do it, and anyone who's not living along an interstate can see just how much benefit they are personally getting from it so far.... (hint: none)
You don't need a level 2 charger at home. You don't need gas stations equivalents. EV companies won't make infrastructure, because we've already built tons of infrastructure for EVs and it's called the electric grid. Everywhere has electricity. I was recently in a very remote area for vacation in my EV, and just plugged my car into a regular outlet to charge it up. To get there, I stopped for lunch and plugged my car in at a supercharger while I ate.
Target is putting in superchargers at lots of their locations around me. Other places are or will follow suit. If you can't charge at home, you'll simply stop by the store/mall/whatever, do your normal shopping, and have your car charge in the meantime. Or you'll charge at work, or any number of other places.
EVs aren't hard, they just require a mindset shift. People worry about this and that, but it's because they haven't actually tried it and have given too much weight to FUD spread about EVs.
100% agree. For most small commutes, 110v outlet is just plenty but let’s all flip out until then. Is a level 2 at home handy, sure, required nope.
The amount of misinformation, FUD, and just plain lies is mind boggling.
A second hand Renault Zoe can be had for about £5k. MG4 for about £25k if you insist on getting new. I appreciate these may not be options where you live but the prices are coming down if you're willing to look beyond the traditional brands.
What these articles fail to mention is that it's the "legacy" brands like Ford that are struggling. Brands like BYD and Tesla are doing just fine and are struggling to keep up with demand in some cases.
Also, you charge at home.
The infrastructure where you live doesn't matter. The infrastructure where you're going to or on the route might matter if it's far away enough.
I live in a town with a smaller population than yours. We have 2 chargers at 50kw, which is pretty slow by modern standards.
So far I've used it once when testing that the car was working okay when I first got it. That's it. Never used it since. Because I charge at home.
Nearest super charger is around 50 miles away. Which is fine. Because I'll always leave with 100% charge.
I've never waited for charging. Probably because I own a Tesla and have access to their super charging network which was about 50% the reason I got that over the Ioniq 5 or Nissan Aryia. I look forward to the competition getting better and my recommendation being beyond "get a Tesla if you're worried about charging".
And yes, I have done long trips (at least by UK standards) and I have needed to charge before I got home. But the car's range is bigger than my bladder's/stomach's range so frankly I would have stopped anyway and the car took care of adding charging stops for me.
I have seen people queuing at non Tesla chargers and can only assume it's a frustrating experience. In the UK new chargers are being opened at an impressive rate (up ~40% on last year, IIRC) so hopefully that issue won't be so bad in the future.
It's not there yet, but the problems are getting solved and the prices are coming down. If you can charge at home then it's probably a good option. If you can't, that's another matter.
In the same way you don't care about MTU settings to get the best out of your Internet these days, you won't care about the issues with charging and prices soon. It will suddenly get better and nobody will even notice or care anymore.
I don't think the vast emptiness that is the US translates well to the UK. By area, New Mexico is almost the exact same size as the british isles, and it's only the 5th largest state. I've done 400+ miles in a single day of driving many times. The furthest I've driven in a day was close to 800 miles.
Yeah, someone from the UK lecturing Americans on how EV infrastructure is just fine is rich. There are EVs capable of getting them pretty much anywhere in their country on a single charge. Meanwhile, I wouldn't be able to visit my parents two states away without needing to charge halfway through. And the options if you have a family are even fewer and more expensive. There are six of us in our household. Which EV should we drop 6 figures on to get us and our luggage 600 miles away for the holidays?
Sure, but we have chargers everywhere. There's a guy in this thread with 6 chargers in his whole US town of 30,000 people. We have 6 chargers on an office building of 30 people. Get your shitty infrastructure together, and all those distance issues disappear. Nobody is driving 600 miles without a break. What are you all doing, pissing in bottles?
In the meantime, how about rent a vehicle for that one instance a year where you want to travel more than to and from work. Or heaven forbid, public transportation.
"But what about that time four years ago where you had to take a fridge home?"
"Aw gee I'd better buy a Ford F150 monster truck. Thanks Motor industry!"
In fairness many people.in the UK have parents living two countries away in Spain. I doubt that is taken into account when buying a car, particularly an ev .
Most people would consider flying for such visits, and I thought that was standard in the US too. Don't most people take a domestic flight when you need to cross more then one state border?
Family of six is less of an issue in Europe that's definitely not normal and would greatly reduce your options when buying a vehicle, electric or not.
People in the US typically only take domestic flights between major cities and usually only if they are traveling a long distance (across multiple states).
One reason for this is because you usually have to rent a car when you reach your destination anyway. So if you fly two states away to visit family, land in the closest city to where they live, now you have to rent a car at the airport and drive a couple of hours to their house. You've now paid for a flight and a car rental and you probably could have gotten there cheaper and just as quickly, if not faster, if you drove.
https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/14/kia-releases-pricing-specifications-for-ev9/
I wasn't "lecturing" anyone. I was sharing my experiences and knowledge. Isn't that what we're here for?
Nope. If I want to go from basically anywhere in Wales to London, then I'm charging partway there.
Correct. Do you normally do 600 miles in one go without a toilet/comfort/food break? You don't stop at all? If that's the case then you shouldn't be driving, as that's dangerous. And you might have dehydration.
People seem to think that EV owners have only ever owned an EV. No, I've been driving for 20 years and owning an EV for 1. I wouldn't go back. The EV experience is vastly superior to the ICE experience where it counts. It's not universally better for every possible measure but I'm more than happy with the trade-offs. I did my homework and it's been a perfectly pleasant experience.
It's fine. Really.
As long as there is a way of charging every 200 or so miles, you're probably fine.... If you're in Tesla or once the network is opened up enough. Otherwise you're probably stuck or at least having a shit experience
This video is worth a watch. Robert does the same trip in a Polestar 2 and a Tesla. The experience was very different between the two: https://youtu.be/92w5doU68D8
Tweet from the same guy who highlights your concern: https://twitter.com/AgingWheels/status/1722858752569651540 ... Unless you're in a Tesla: https://twitter.com/AgingWheels/status/1723001588388704427
If you're genuinely interested there are plenty of apps which show the chargers and you can see how it works for your routes.
Sadly Tesla is simply head and shoulders above the competition at the moment. So if you just don't like Teslas then it's probably best to wait for a bit and see how it plays out. Although they are gradually opening the network to non Tesla cars.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/92w5doU68D8
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
You really can't expect equal infrastructure to gas when so many people can charge at home and that's enough for the vast majority of driving. DC fast charging is for road trips and people who can't charge at home for whatever reason (mainly apartments). Yes, I understand they exist.
That said, the home modifications needed are often overestimated. I got a 50 amp 240V outlet installed in my garage. One electrician quoted $1300, but GM has a promo for a free installation. That guy quoted $1800, but GM paid it in full. More importantly: my panel is on the other side of the house. They had to run about 50 feet of wiring through my laundry room and up to the front of my garage - hardly a typical scenario when so many people have the panel in or near their garage already. That was for a huge circuit that will basically last me forever. But honestly? So many people grossly overestimate their needs. Even a little 16A 240V outlet would be just fine for most people, most of the time, and that's really not much different than adding a normal outlet in terms of cost. Speaking of normal outlets, even that can get you a few dozen miles of charge overnight, every night, which is pretty close to what an average person drives over a year.
If a person in a trailer park is buying a brand new car from a dealership they can afford to have a level 2 charger installed. But also a lot of people are fine with just a normal plug.
There will NEVER be an equal amount of chargers as gas stations simply because it's not necessary. Most people charge at home.