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Zelenskiy to visit Washington in bid to break Senate deadlock on Ukraine aid
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2023
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Trick question. Ukraine has already lost the second Russia invaded. They've lost an entire generation. They could still lose territory but I don't see them ever compromising at this point and Russia would have generations of insurgencies to deal with. Ukraine will eventually gain back their territory, if not within the current conflict.
That's not why the West is supporting them though. They are supporting them because Russia is fighting an aggressive land grab not seen since WWII (or arguably Kuwait but not by a nuclear power) and using the exact same tactics. Every major world institution set up since WWII was to prevent exactly this type of aggression.
So, to answer your leading question, yes Ukraine could still lose the current conflict. They already have and that's why they need the aid so that Russia can be as punished as possible to maintain the current deterrence for any other states that would seek to do the same thing.
It's not a trick question at all.
Ukraine is still defending its territory. Ukraine thought, at one time, that it could even take back Crimea. I'm sure many of you thought it could as well. At what point do you admit when you were wrong and acknowledge you could be wrong in the future?
Now it's clear they can't take back Crimea, regardless of how many people believed otherwise. I'm trying to suggest to those same people that maybe, just maybe, it's possible Ukraine is unable to defend its remaining territory as well.
The propaganda machine is in full-swing. Don't fall victim to it, on either sides.
700 Russian casualties yesterday and the kids in the Black Sea naval war says this situation is still significantly dynamic. Failure to advance does not mean Ukraine has lost the way anymore than it means Russia has lost the war in their failure to take Avdivka. People matter. Attrition matters.
War is politics by other means. Germany lost WWI due to a political failure, not anything on the frontlines. French Soldiers were mutinying up to the day of the armistice. There is a lot of political will in Ukraine and Russia didn't seem to get the memo that this has turned into an attritional fight. You interpret that as stalemate. They have interpreted it as needing to kill as many Russians as possible. With an average of 800 Russian casualties a day for the last two months, I'd say they are absolutely not losing this war but showing they can consistently be trusted to take the actions that are most sounds towards winning the war.
Don't think I don't understand propaganda and that both sides do it. You do match the Russian narratives perfectly though. Suspiciously so, actually.
Yeah, I just skipped to the end cause I knew you were going to do this.
Anyone who is not unwavering in their support of Ukraine is a Russian troll in your mind.
Forget all the comments I make about diverting resources from Israel to Ukraine, lol. The fact I suggested Ukraine might lose is enough for me to "match the Russian narratives perfectly." Suspiciously so, actually.
Nice tribalism. I don't expect you to rise above it or acknowledge it.
You're doing it right now.
You skipped all the parts where I provided supporting evidence. You make yourself look ignorant. Sorry, I didn't read anything after the first sentence. (Actually I did read it but it doesn't actually expand on anything)
Yes, Ukraine is losing because they have not made it as far as they hoped is exactly the Russian narrative. It's not unwavering support but you completely ignore the rest of my comment so I don't know what to tell you. You look like an idiot because you are not addressing my points and just continuing the exact Russian narratives. I'm not entirely certain that you aren't a bugging bot that couldn't deal with an actual military political assessment.