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this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2023
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Why has no one argued that rules against abortion infringe on religious liberty? The Bible contains directions for a priest to perform an abortion. In any case, someone could simply claim the law stops them from practicing their chosen faith.
The satanic temple has. Those folks are out there doing the lord's work, ironically
Also ironically (given the current state of christianity) the Satanic church is the only church that is actually accepting of all people and whose love for all people is unconditional. (Yes I do belong myself). I guess I'm a bit prejudiced. But - not against my fellow man at all.
Fellow satanist! Or whatever we call ourselves actually 🐐
I know, it sounds weird to say, "hey there fellow Satanist!" I just call myself a BAP (born again Pagan) because "pagan" I think is more palatable to people than "satanist," they think we run around with knives trying to stab nuns and orphans.
The appeals in the two major abortion cases Griswold v. Connecticut and Roe v. Wade were thought by some to have been taken up prematurely. There were a number of cases that came before those that were honing in on the issue from a gender discrimination standpoint. RBG is one who thought the cases were premature. For example, she had successfully argued that a disability benefit law granting survivorship benefits only to widows was illegally discriminatory against men. She had planned to do the same thing in a challenge to an abortion statute, and thought the Court would strike it down on grounds that it forced only women to carry a child to term after which only the woman had a legal duty to raise and care for the child. Before the Court could consider the argument, abortion statutes were struck down on based on penumbral reasoning, privacy grounds.
I think some groups have, I know there are religions where abortion is very much a human right and they are trying to sue their state goverments, but it won't do any good. We are in the grip of fascism, people - and that can't be overcome by law suits.
Because it's a dumb line of argument. No one in the process should give a fuck what any religious texts say one way or another and it's not a can of worms that should be opened just because it might be convenient in this case.
Some have
Yeah bodily autonomy is non-negotiable. This is the government tyranny that we’re theoretically allowed to have guns to prevent.
I do agree that one's bodily autonomy is nobody else's business. I don't think guns will help with government tyranny, they're more likely to get you locked up and not able to accomplish what you hoped. And clearly in Utah voting doesn't work either, because only republicans are allowed on the ticket here - you can register as democrat here, but you won't receive a ballot and there won't be any candidates to vote for.
Have some sources on this? I'm interested
You expect me to back up my wild crazy assertions with actual sources? : / How unAmerican! Actually all I have are my own lived experiences here in Utah. But you can read about Utah's "supermajority" on the web - though not much will be said about any democratic leanings, which actually are the leanings of most of the people in the general population here.
Wtf are you talking about? Have you heard of prison? Have you heard of health mandates? Bodily autonomy is not a good argument. Family autonomy is a good argument; legislatures have no legitimate reason to make such highly intimate, family-planning decisions for the public at large or for women only, especially.
I believe that all people have the right to bodily autonomy, and if one is married then family autonomy does make sense as well. I do not believe any legislature has a legitimate reason to make healthcare decisions for any person or family.
There's no redeemable legal right to "bodily autonomy." Abortion was protected by the Constitution only under an implied privacy rubric. I understand what you're saying and I agree wholeheartedly, it's just the law doesn't recognize mere bodily autonomy as something that's protected. The protections for this stuff are rooted in privacy, due process.
I get flamed everytime I bring this up, but the sovereign has a right to perpetuate itself. In other words, part of the constitutional compact--the trade off between the people the new federation, the consent of the people to give away certain natural law freedoms in exchange for our great experiment in government by the people--is that the federation has a mandate to preserve it's continued existence.
So, hypothetically, think of the plot of the movie Outbreak: a viral pathogen so deadly and so out of control that the entire country might be deceased within weeks if the spread is not halted, and so the government deploys strategic bombing against its own cities. The Supreme Court has always upheld reasonable, good faith vaccine mandates, quarantines, military drafts, limitations on habeas corpus, travel restrictions, and many many varieties of forced medical procedures, not to mention all the regulatory action on food and drugs, that are certainly less intrusive but potentially no less matter of life and death, such as bans on experimental medication and procedures.
Are not seatbelts and drunk driving laws restrictions on bodily autonomy? I mentioned prison and habeas corpus, but the whole thing there, and especially the Fourth and Eighth Amendments pretty obviously limits bodily autonomy, you know, if you get sentenced to prison, aside from habeas corpus, the right to bodily autonomy is massively limited and virtually everyone is fine with that.
All I'm saying is that bodily autonomy is a crap argument, it's obviously not something that's legally sacrosanct, and it's obviously something that yields to the most mundane of reasons, such as the little kid, seven or eleven years old or something, that was placed under custodial arrest for public urination. I mean if the law allows your right to bodily autonomy to break for public urination, do you ever have a redeemable right of bodily autonomy? How many people lost their bodily autonomy for decades for some weed?
Well in my view, seatbelts and drunk driving laws are mandates for helping protect and safeguard bodily autonomy (of others if not yourself). And yes federal laws do compromise bodily autonomy, but such measures have to be in place when someone's autonomy threatens the safety of other people.
This is just my opinion, but I think we do have an inalienable right to bodily autonomy. But in a world with other people around we can't truly have total autonomy all the time. So I get the point you're making in that regard. The law must inhibit behaviors that are indecent or harmful to other people.
However in the case of abortion rights, I think the current laws restrict access to necessary healthcare, and one's healthcare choices are the most autonomous of all personal choices. No one can force you to go seek medical care, but by the same token no one should be passing laws to make it impossible to seek such care.
You don't think the right is inalienable if you've just listed two situations in which bodily autonomy is justifiably alienated, see?
You can absolutely forced to be vaccinated or quarantined by the government. No country I'm aware of has laws to the contrary. Even like, if you get hurt at work, the government can require you to have surgery if doing so would regain your functional capscity, contingent on future wage loss or medical treatment benefits.
Sounds good to me.
Also to protect our marijuana\opium fields and colored LGBTQZN (n stands for non-carbon) genetically augmented catgirl\catboy\catbeing\catthing spouses from government overreach with assault rifles, machine guns, howitzers and MRLS`s.
Ah, well, not everybody is a libertarian.
I used to be anti-drug use in every way. Now I'm looking for a field of marijuana opoid poppies to go run into and frolic in, like Laurel Ingalls, and then fall face down in and hopefully live in the rest of my life.......
Well, we only have one life, so why not. I personally think of women more than of intoxication in that regard.
Well as you say we only have one life, so why not? Whatever intoxicates you, who can blame you for needing it and smothering yourself with it in today's world.
Your mistake is thinking that this position is one of ignorance. They hate women, plain and simple. It was never about a tumor that happens to turn into a human if you leave it alone long enough.
I love this description. I know some tumors in their thirties+ that never became human. Most of them are conservatives.
Oh I totally get that. I even wrote an editorial about the "women hating" so called "justices" of the Supreme court, and it didn't go over very well here in women-hating Utah. I agree with you on that completely.
THANK YOU. This is the kind of outrage this deserves. WHAT. THE. FUCK.
Thank you for acknowledging it! And understanding it. If we don't feel this kind of outrage over this, then I'm afraid we're doomed to keep having it heaped on us forever. "What the Fuck" should be what we're asking all these people, and protesting with signs saying it in front of their homes.
I agree. There are no words in elvish, entish or tongues of men, for this treachery.
And there should be! By Garweyn! Or something in the elvish tongue to that effect.
Mifepristone and other abortion drugs aren't going anywhere. The FDA is being challenged that it didn't go through its own normal process as it relaxed the rules on prescribing and dispensing them, that's it. If SCOTUS says that the FDA didn't then the drugs will remain legal but go back to being somewhat harder to get...until the FDA does follow it's own rules.
It's a stupid waste of time but its not the world ending problem that its being made out to be.