53
What’s Up With Germany’s Pro-Israel ‘Left’? | Novara Media
(novaramedia.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2023
53 points (80.5% liked)
World News
32378 readers
651 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Most of developed world are pretty fed up with Hamas. Lemmy is not the norm.
Well 150 countries are fed up with Israel. The global north’s morals are not the norm.
A great number of countries on that list as those the likes of Russia, Saudia Arabia, North Korea.... Not nations known for human rights or security.
"80% of the world is against Israel, which is backed by my country, but among them there are countries that are bad and oppose my country for some reason, so I'll support what my country is backing instead"
Israel is much more successful in massacring people than any of the countries you could think of. And please, don't talk shit about other countries when you aren't ready to fight against your country's ruling class. That never ended well. This is literally the reason some Russian "communists" support the war.
Which war
the Russia-Ukraine war of course
Most of the developed world and Lemmy realise that supporting Palestinians is not supporting Hamas.
You seem to have not gotten the memo.
Most of the world is however fed up with the inhumane acts committed by Israel, to the point that even Western countries are openly condemning them.
I've seen several people on Lemmy fully supporting Hamas, so I wouldn't say Lemmy gets your first point.
Please educate yourself on formal logic.
Support for Hamas does imply support for Palestine.
However, what the original commenter said is that supporting Palestine doesn't imply supporting Hamas, which is true, but that in turn implies an eclectic worldview in which you support a people against a genocide, but not their only means for resisting said genocide, and ignore facts (for example, by reading the 1988 Hamas charter, which is heavily cited by Western media, instead of the 2017 Hamas charter, which is much harder to find because it's inconvenient for the West)
Hamas has also stated quite recently their goal is the elimination of Israel by repeated terrorist attacks against civilians. So no, one should not support Hamas.
First, elimination of Israel is a good thing. Second, please show me the source.
Indeed, "terrorist attacks" have widely been performed by Palestinians and Palestinian liberation groups. Some were aimless, as they were just the spontaneous expression of the hatred of Palestinians towards Zionists. Some were quite purposeful (and it's not just Palestinians doing that, there were plenty of cases of e.g. terrorist attacks of Ukraine on many people in Russia, the most recent one I remember killed a former Ukraine deputy who defected to Russia, and the blowing up of the Crimea bridge may well be considered one) - with the purpose being anything from assassinations (like the assassination of the minister of tourism by PFLP, and I hope you won't claim Israel's government is innocent and shouldn't be targeted), to raising money, to political demands (the Japanese Red Army Faction hijacked some planes for ransom or to make the Japanese government release prisoners, or to make a point by flying one to DPRK), to perhaps the most objectionable purpose - intimidating Israelis to show that this isn't "their" land.
"Terrorist attacks" shouldn't be equated with each other - they should be looked at in the context of who's leading them, what's their purpose and means. If you reject "terrorist attacks", you're often rejecting the only means of partisan combat for heavily overwhelmed forces. Of course indiscriminate attacks on civilians are bad (though if civilians start shooting at you, you're forced to fight anyway), but, depending on the organization leading them, most terrorist attacks aren't that. There's of course also the wider problem that terrorist attacks can't be the only means towards an end, and don't make sense in a lot of cases. Whether Hamas or PFLP perform them is not up to me, I'll just trust that they know their options better than me. I'm not in a position to teach or moralize them.
I believe that Hamas should eliminate Israel through whatever means necessary. But I do not "support" Hamas, at least not uncritically.
Is that what the news says
I haven't seen a single person defend Hamas. Not here or anywhere.
I do. Why not? Do everyone fighting the good fight need to be angels? Sure I wish it was pflp leading the fight but anyone opposing Israel gets my support.