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Biden’s Israel Policies Are Still on the Wrong Track
(www.thenation.com)
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this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
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…and it’s still not a good strategy.
He is generally swayed by popular opinion, so we just need to wait for the rusted cogs and pistons that operate his brain to loosen up and maybe we'll get a somewhat sane take before the election rolls around.
Why not?
I suppose you imagine that the war in Gaza is just going to…. Go away? Drop out of the news chcle, maybe?
It won’t.
It’s going to stay in the news. As will Ukraine. Like they say: if it bleeds, it leads. In 4k.
Wars and tensions have been constant since like 1948.
I don't see how Biden's handling of the Gaza situation is at all a negative for him.
Yeah, Pro-Israel voters are single issue voters. Everyone else will have multiple competing priorities, and ending a genocide is jockeying for a spot on the list with healthcare, economic equality, education, and human rights at home. Biden might lose the pro-Palestine single issue voters, but they aren't going to show up to vote for Trump, and they don't exist in numbers that will swing any particular state Biden's way.
Until and unless the voters demand a change to our policy in Israel, Biden isn't the sort of "leader" to challenge his supoorters.
Do you really believe the other option will be less genocide?
Not at all. But that's my point. I think the reason Biden is pro-Israel is the same reason every other politician is pro-Israel and why anyone calling for an end to the genocide will not get enough support to get their party's nomination.
There is no help for Palestinians coming from the United States government.
because of the foreign influence campaign? I can think of a few who are... not being bribed...
Of course there is that, but don't kid yourself, there are a lot of pro-Israel voters who really do support whatever Israel does. And as I mentioned, those voters care more about supporting Israel than they care about most other issues. They won't vote for a candidate who doesn't support Israel no matter what, and they vote (and donate) in large numbers in key swing states.
And, like I already mentioned, the voters who don't support Israel no matter what are mostly opposed to the genocide of Palestinians, but that isn't the most important voting issue for those voters. The few voters for which stopping Israel from committing genocide haven't historically voted (or donated) in sufficient numbers to swing any state one way or the other.
The upcoming Presidential election might be the first one where Palestine shows up on exit polls as a priority issue, but since neither candidate is willing to criticize Israel, it's hard to predict where those voters will take their votes, other than home.
Supporting genocide reflects poorly on Biden's character, values, humanity, and elective viability.
It's entirely possible that Israel's psychotic ethnic cleansing is going to hand the election to Trump who will absolutely pioneer new dimensions of anti-Semitism to unleash on the single issue voters who worried that progressives might choose human rights over supporting Israel's extermination of Gazans.
There are a lot of people who really do not support the idea that we should be funding one country's apartheid and ethnic cleansing of a rival regional ethnic group. Some of them will stay home, some of them will vote Trump not knowing that he's worse.
This is an unpopular opinion you seem to think is popular.
I'm not super concerned with popularity of my opinions. Israel has murdered men,women, babies, and their own hostages while indiscriminately bombing absolutely everything. Israel's behavior is so inhuman It is an existential threat to the state of Israel. That's why we're commenting on an article where people are losing support for Biden because he has been enabling a murderous regime of a rogue state that is engaged in genocide.
Netanyahu needs to go to the Hague where he should be hung until dead and left for the crows. He's no different than Hamas and people are waking up to that.
Elections are literally popularity contests.
Also minor note: hanged until dead. Past tense of hang (execution) is "hanged" for some weird reason.
Are you missing the part where Biden is losing support?
I'm not super concerned with the popularity of my opinions, but the president definitely should care whether or not his choice to indulge a psychotic rogue state's extermination of the native population is going to lose him support domestically. Did you even look at the article?
The election cycle has not even begun. The war will be over and in the rear view mirror, and Biden will not be challenged on his support of Israel, meaning this is a nothingburger.
I understand you are passionate about this, but this is how election cycles work.
You're in pretty deep denial about how important it is for Democrats to at least pay lip service to human rights and international law.
I know that Israel wants to finish the extermination of Palestinians as quickly as possible but if they are allowed to finish Biden will lose the election.
And then you get Trump who thinks Hitler was kind of cool. The article everyone is commenting on is about why this is an issue and your hand wavy dismissive attitude is not sufficient to discharge the very loud very public debate going on about whether or not America needs to indulge every psychotic whim of Israel.
They elected Netanyahu. If they want to do things this way they need to do it without our fucking guns.
Dont bother with this account. I think it is a shell accounts or working for IDF or something.
"everyone who disagrees with me is a shill, and if they're right they're an extra double shill"
Come back to this post in October and let me know how the Gaza debate is blowing up the news cycle
Most Democrats believe that neither human rights nor international law are being violated. Most Democrats believe Israel is.lashing out rather than having an effectively controlled military response, not that they're genocidal.
You're arguing your case to me but that's not what we're discussing. What were discussing is the election. You can see the minority quite clearly by looking at who votes for what.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/house/4355912-israel-palestine-democratic-divisions/amp/
Also keep in mind that, electorily, this will be almost entirely forgotten about by next November.
if you're going to be like that, should probably check first the two words are largely interchangeable.
Be like what?
He's currently being abandoned by young progressives over his decisions in this war. This is the demographic he needs to win the most, so you can probably see the problem here.
Well really what are the young progressives gonna do? Vote for whatever fascist clown is gonna run against him?
Not vote at all, or vote third party. None of these will get a good candidate into office, but they'll do more than enough to lose Biden the election.
Centrists consider their own entitlement to be reality itself and cannot imagine either of these happening.
If they consistently voted, that would be a bigger threat. Vote third party because no one will believe the demographic that consistently sits out elections sat this one out specifically to hand the country to fascists. That didn't work out so well for Germans or the rest of the world, but maybe the Fourth Reich is the charm.
Like I said to the other guy: They don't vote enough but voter turnout for the 18-30 age bracket was almost 50% in 2020 (the highest in a very long time). If Biden can't get the same numbers for 2024 he loses, and he's very much failing at that.
Not vote?
That's the same as voting for Trump
Yes. But that's not their fault. Biden, or whichever Democrat is on the ballot, isn't entitled to anyone's vote for simply being "not the fascist."
Sure, but if young progressives don't want Trump as President, they are gonna have to bite the bullet and vote Biden. This is the wrong time to send a message.
You recognize how demoralizing that is, though? Zoomers are staring into the face of oblivion. There's nothing right now that isn't entirely fucked. The economy, the job market, the housing market, education, international relations, human rights, social equality, racism and bigotry, the climate, biodiversity, journalism, entire ecosystems, energy production, healthcare, all of it sucked dry by their forebears.
Many of these kids were too young to vote for Biden the first time, or Hillary before that. They sat like passengers in a crashing plane while the US Government continued it's inexorable decline into madness. And it didn't start with Trump, nor did it end when Biden took office, but at the very least we don't have a fascist in the Oval Office anymore.
Now you're saying that they need to step up and prevent another Trump administration, but the only way they can do it, the only possible option is to pull a lever next to Status Quo Biden? Buy into the shit show and pledge fealty to the collapse, or else someone will set the crashing plane on fire?
I did vote for Biden, and I voted for Hillary, and I will vote for Biden again next time, but neither was my first choice, and it's not my fault they were selected to run. Telling kids that "now is not the time" to send a message is like saying "we have ice cream at home" when you know damn well there's just one crusty ice pop in the bottom of the freezer, only instead of ice cream, it's a survivable future.
Oh, it's 100 percent demoralising! But thats, unfortunately, what it boils down to, isn't it? Having to choose the lesser of two evils instead of being allowed to vote with your heart (even if that means not voting at all). It's entirely unfair. Young people aren't responsible for this mess, and now so much depends on them. They deserve so much better, but are stuck with a party that is united behind a lunatic with the vocabulary of a 5 year old, or a party that is excellent at putting forth candidates that make that lunatic look just reasonable enough. If this was any other country I'd merely sympathise and sleep peacefully knowing that Trump is old and unhealthy, and that his time will come. But it's the US that we're talking about, and so much depends on the election. You not only have the US looking at young voters, but the entire world. It's a horrible situation.
Sounds like they need to organize and work on changing our archaic ass voting system first, then.
Let me tell you what Arab Americans are saying. If you stick us with a choice of a president who will bomb Arabs OR a president who will bomb Arabs, then there will be blood on our hands for voting for either and will stay home.
Biden broke promises to the community and did so in the misguided hope he could get some Republicans to switch their votes to him. Hillary tried the same thing and failed.
They don't vote
They don't vote enough but voter turnout for the 18-30 age bracket was almost 50% in 2020. If Biden can't get the same numbers for 2024 he loses, simple as that.
Democrats are kinda beholden to public opinion and it's mercurial nature because they're platform is that they are the entity responsible for people getting what they want...
If public opinion sways to being against Israel, it is expected that a democratic government will follow suit.
Are they?
Lol, is that more a Republican deal? Pretty sure repubs are listening to whoever has the fattest wallet, or perhaps the Jesus book...
I guess your opinion is that Dem legislators are likewise apathetic to the general public? I was implying otherwise, but I guess it didn't sound narrative-y enough eh? Meh.
There are probably less than a dozen politicians in America that actually listen to their constituents. The rest are Republicans or Neoliberal Democrats who more or less all play for the same team at the end of the day: money. The neoliberals are also still under the unfortunate impression that the fascists can be negotiated with, which will end very poorly for us all.
This is false, and is essentially just a long-running meme of Americans hating authority now being taken as fact.
All politicians overwhelmingly do what their constituents want them to do - moreso now than at any time before the modern era, because most politicians are extremely nervous about being primaried, and not worried about a challenger from another party
Henry Cuellar didn't need to worry. He is anti-labor, anti-abortion, and pro-nra, but his opponent was progressive, so the party protected him.
Not a single one of them are concerned about being primaried. They could be total shit candidates and they will still be reelected as long as they keep that D next to their name.
Tell that to the Republican party, which has been turned inside-out by this process over 6 years, and has been reforming since 2010 solely because of primary threats
Thats why I specified 'D next to their name.'
The mechanics are the same. D or R is irrelevant.