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this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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Here's a more concise response for you
How many have they displaced? How many hospitals have they destroyed? Their 22,000 strikes directly killed 20k but the indirect deaths that result from those strikes count as well. Also, the fact that they've done 22,000 strikes sure doesn't sound like a proportionate response.
Having nukes that your enemies know you can't use isn't much of a deterrent.
If Hamas's goal is the destruction of Israel, this has been their most successful campaign by far. They've shown the world exactly how much Israel cares about Palestinians. The BDS movement will just get stronger and stronger the longer this goes on, to say nothing of the 'less civil' anti-Israel sentiment.
Being subject to the occasional terrorist/freedom fighter attack is simply the cost of having colonies. If they don't want to accept that cost, the options are to get rid of the colonies or wipe out the indigenous inhabitants.
Most respected the warning and moved to safer areas hence the lower civilian death toll. Would you rather they stay and die? Displacement isn't always a bad thing.
You mean Hamas bases? As many as they need to.
The goal is to eliminate Hamas. Proportinality isn't a thing here. This will take months and Israel will sweep up and down the entire Gaza strip as needed.
I wouldn't be so sure. Israel doesn't acknowledge their nukes and plays by it's own rules. A first strike option is on the table.
You sure about that? People are tiring of the protests now and turning on the protestors blocking traffic and invading areas of normal life.
Oh come the fuck on. Colony my ass, the Jews have been there for thousands of years. They have more claim to the area than you or I do from wherever we're posting from. We are all colonizers compared to Israel.
My roots only go back on 150 years and I'm in fucking Wisconsin. If the Objibwa tribe mounted an attack on my people now they'd be eradicated and no one would balk. The moment passed for atacks, we are here now and not going anywhere.
It's time Palestine accept that as well because if they can't they'll be living in refugee camps permanently.
I'm only too happy to oblige you!
"Lower civilian death toll" whatever the hell that means...
The notion that displacement is somehow a lesser evil compared to immediate civilian casualties is a gross oversimplification. Displacement not only uproots families but results in chronic poverty, lack of access to education, and enduring psychological trauma. It is an aspect of genocide according to the UN Convention that Israel ratified.
Casually labeling hospitals as 'Hamas bases' without incontrovertible proof undermines the principles of accountability and due process. Hospitals are protected under international law, and their destruction has dire consequences for civilian access to healthcare, particularly in conflict zones. This is another aspect of genocide. Israel has a long history of flouting international law.
International humanitarian law emphasizes that military actions must be proportional to the military advantage gained, to prevent excessive civilian harm. Disregarding proportionality has resulted in widespread civilian casualties and will escalate the conflict, leading to cycles of retaliation and further instability.
But I thought the 'beauty' of Israel having nuclear weapons is that they won't need to use them? Now you suggest a first strike option. So they'll preemptively crap in their own bed?
And we already know Israel 'plays by their own rules.' That's the fucking problem. That's why they're in this situation.
As have Palestinians. Israel refers to these colonies as "settlements" but they are illegal settlements, under international law. How illegal? Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states, "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies." The international community generally considers the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip as occupied territories, and therefore, the Israeli settlements are seen as a violation of this clause.
The United Nations Security Council passed several resolutions affirming that Israel's settlement activities in the occupied territories are illegal. For example, Resolution 242 calls for the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the Six-Day War of 1967, and Resolution 2334 states that Israel's settlement activity constitutes a "flagrant violation" of international law and has "no legal validity."
In 2004, the ICJ issued an advisory opinion stating that the construction of the West Bank barrier by Israel, and by extension the settlements, violated international law.
The 'settlements' are an obstacle to the peace process because they involve the appropriation of land and resources that could be part of a future Palestinian state. Their expansion is seen as prejudicing the outcome of negotiations on the final status of the territories. Hence, they are seen as part of a process to colonize the area. Hence 'colonies.'
Now, I could be wrong but you strike me as the sort who doesn't put much weight behind international law.
Holding onto regressive attitudes not only hinders conflict resolution but also fails to recognize the progress humanity has made in understanding and upholding human rights.
The genocidal actions against Native Americans centuries ago are widely recognized as a dark and shameful chapter in your country's history. Not a good benchmark for contemporary conflict resolution. It's regressive and implies a tolerance for such atrocities. Those moral and ethical standards belong in the 1700s. Do you also believe women should be denied the vote and that African Americans should still be enslaved?
#gaza #gazagenocide #palestine #freepalestine
I'm old enough to remember what happended in Rwanda. International laws may as well be printed on the back of a CVS receipt. It's equally worthless.
Pretending "international law" or anything the UN says is worth mentioning is laughable at this point.
And I do agree the slow West Bank takeover over by Israel settlers is wrong. It needs to stop. However claims about Israel being on colonized land is bullshit rhetoric that doesn't deserve respect.
My point is it's every countries history. No one exists on land orignally belonging to their tribe. Most land has been 'stolen' many times over.
At the end of the day my positions are this. Israel has a right to exist. Palestine never existed. Arabs lost every war ever fought. Losers don't get to dictate terms.
Arabs refused every deal presented no matter how favorable throughout the decades. They want it all. They want to be free from the river to the sea AKA they want every Jew dead. They are always the one to initate attacks.
After Oct 7th Israel had the right to declare war and do the needful so to speak. Hamas will be eradicated. Gaza will suffer much more than they are now and theres not a hashtag in the world that will change whats coming. No international law will be enforced, no UN intervention.
Religion is a cancer on the world and the middle east is exhibit A as to why it belongs in the past. Forced to choose I'll back Judism over Islam every time. Islam kills non believers like me and spawns death cults across the globe. It's an abhorrent and barbaric religion that is incompatible with the modern world.
I am also old enough to remember Rwanda. It reflected a failure of intervention, not the irrelevance of international law. Do you remember the ICTR? Do you remember Jean Kambanda, Colonel Theoneste Bagosora, Georges Rutaganda, Pauline Nyiramasuhuko and the ~60 others indicted for war crimes, many of whom are serving life sentences or have died in prison? You seem to misunderstand how international law -- or any law -- works. Laws don't stop criminals from doing crimes, it punishes them for doing crimes.
How about the Special Court for Sierra Leone, which marked the first time a head of state was held accountable by an international court for war crimes? Where's Charles Taylor now? Rotting in a cell in the UK, that's where.
Slobodan Milosevic croaked in a cell before his trial was over, but that's another example of international law holding a leader accountable.
Bibi and his cadre of warmongers will have their turn, but that's cold comfort to those whose world has ended because their extremist government poked a psychopathic, rage-fueled bear. And before you tell me "they elected them," no they didn't. At least half of the people in gaza are too young to vote. Israel is literally dropping bombs on children.
Oh, is THAT why you haven't provided any rebuttals?
You have an opinion and you are welcome to it, but I have backed up my opinion with examples which you have not disputed in any meaningful way.
Your position is brutal and reductive. The 'might makes right' attitude is regressive because it perpetuates ongoing conflict and instability, it promotes the idea that conflicts are resolved through dominance rather than negotiation, it frequently leads to the suppression of human rights and freedoms, as the ruling power prioritizes maintaining control over respecting individual rights. In short, it neglects the principles of justice, equality, and sustainable peace, leading to long-term negative consequences both domestically and internationally.
You say religion is a cancer. How ironic that positions like yours are a big reason why it can be a cancer.
Your views on Arab participation in peace processes are similarly reductive. Israel has similarly rejected Palestinian proposals, for example the Camp David Summit, the Taba Talks and the Arab Peace Initiative.
Lastly, your characterization of Islam reeks of bigotry. Extremism does not define an entire religion, and Islam is practiced by about a quarter of the world's population -- if a significant portion wanted to "wipe out the non-believers," the world would be a very different place than it is. Such generalizations hinder constructive dialogue and perpetuate hate.
Speaking from my own perspective as someone lucky enough to grow up in a large, multi-cultural city, your statements about Islam hold exactly no water. I'm an atheist. Is 'killing the non-believers' done by inviting them to Iftar dinner? By inviting a Rabbi to speak at Iftar dinner about the sacredness of peace and how fortunate we are to live in a peaceful society? It's clear to me that you have no idea about Muslims. I, on the other hand, have a few Muslim friends and colleagues. I even drink beer and smoke shisha with one, even though it's haram. Like every other religion, practitioners exist on a continuum. Like every other religion there are bad people who use it to justify bad actions. Religion is just one of many pretexts bad people use to justify atrocious behaviour. 'National security' is another big one.
What else have you got?
#gaza #gazagenocide #palestine #freepalestine🇵🇸
I'm just impressed you've maintained this quaint notion of how the world works at your age. You seem to have an honest belief in international law and humanity.
I have a belief system based in reality. One where winners dictate terms. No one from a nation with nukes will face the same fate as someone from an African or Balkan country.
Funny how much better life starts to get the further one strays from religion. It's almost like it's holding us all back or something /s
I wish I could say I was surprised by your nihilistic attitude, at your presumed age, but it's sadly all too common. As I've gotten older and watched the world I have become more convinced of the importance of international order, not less.
To be perfectly clear, and as I've repeatedly explained, attitudes like the one you're demonstrating are the essential reason why things are going downhill. To you and everyone like you: Stop acting like an angry 17 year old who just read Ayn Rand. Grow up.
I do think that religion holds us back -- but I'm trying to understand your use of the sarcasm tag. Is the god you worship the military industrial complex and nationalistic exceptionalism? Do you worship The Bomb? Your unquestioning faith in your 'reality' seems like a kind of religious fervor.
I am surprised that you've continued the conversation for so long without providing anything of substance. Your faith must be unshakeable.
You say Islam is a death cult, but have you heard yourself?