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this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023
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The user base on a platform like Threads is probably quite different from that of Lemmy (or reddit) Federating with them means their content is starting to also flood to our platform and in a big way due to their huge number of users meaning that we're getting our faces stuffed with facebook quality content that many specifically is trying to escape here.
from my experience there are some decent communities and people on FB, it's just that you have to find them hidden under heaps of bullshit. No different from Reddit, Twitter or YouTube in that sense imo
With something like Lemmy though, both the users and community moderators have way, way more agency over what they're interacting with, so I don't think federating with mainstream social media would necessarily be that bad
I think, at least?
Then block their domain. Problem solved. Any other objections that can't just be resolved by personally blocking the domain? Don't ban it by default, give users the choice to ban themselves or not. There's no downside.
There is a downside: Because many people don't see the negative long-term effects, Facebook will have enough time to influence and dominate the Fediverse in a negative way. The masses don't see what Facebook is doing in the long run.
There's also not much reason to federate with Facebook. Sign up there if you like that network.
I say not federating is influencing the Fediverse in a negative way. Since I obviously don't agree with that, it's more content. I don't like gatekeeping and this sense of toxic superiority that fedi users are above average Meta users. I want to talk to my family. Same can be said with your influence argument, they can sign up there already and use the fedi, which means they're being influenced already.
I'm extremely against this gatekeeping and want these users. That's the whole point of social media, to communicate with people. More people is more content, which is the whole point. I don't want to only communicate with smug users who think they're superior to a normal person.
I’m very suspicious of Meta and its intentions. I also don’t think I’m better than a Meta user except in my choice of social media platforms, which is only even possible because I haven’t gotten myself into social groups that primarily communicate there. Not everyone is so lucky. If my social group were slightly different I might be a resentful Meta user holding my nose because I would value having a social life over avoiding a company that’s got pretty much everyone entangled anyways. I’d probably try to get people to move platforms, and probably complain about Facebook and Meta as often as I could without annoying everyone, but it’s very likely that they wouldn’t all move off the platform just because one person in the group hates it.
Meta users are welcome to come here. I want everyone to have a non-enshittified, non-corporate social media and that includes people who are currently on an enshittified corporate social media. But Meta itself is not welcome. That means no Threads, no touching us with Meta, go make a non-Meta Fediverse account first. Even if defederating them might not be the most effective, even though they can scrape all our stuff regardless of their federation status, I want to send the message that Meta is very unwelcome here. But its users are welcome. We shouldn’t try to hoard the non-enshittified place all to ourselves. Only gatekeep the place from people who will try to enshittify it—and Grandma from Facebook is not going to try to squeeze us for cash.
So you want the users, but not them to enshittify it, but you also want them magically to come without federating because you think you have a superior sense of social media. Which reality are you in, and how do you intend for the fedi to magically become mainstream with this zero compromise dream scenario you're coming up with? I don't even agree with gatekeeping people you think are shitty, because there's already a terrible fedi population out there like creepy anime instances, truth social, and kiwifarms, etc. Those are all much worse then what you'll find on Facebook and are already on fedi. Has it ruined the network?
This is just completely idealistic hoping that wants a situation that will never happen, has already failed to happen, and is ignoring the reality of the situation. For the fedi to grow, it means also shitty people coming. That's where the proper moderation tools become important.
What I meant by “enshittification” is this:
The linked article explains it a lot better with a specific example in my opinion, but the example is pretty long, so I just provided the quick definition from the article.
I am very much not talking about “oh no the normies are coming, polluting our beautiful pure place with memes and innocent questions about how things work that we superior people already understand.” I am also not talking about people I think are shitty, you handle that by defederating instances with a high volume of shitty people and blocking and reporting the shitty people you still come across. I really shouldn’t have said
because what I actually meant here was gatekeeping it from corporations who will try to enshittify it. Like Meta. I misspoke and I apologize for that.
Lemmy doesn't currently give the option for users to block individual instances. If it did then that would indeed be a better solution
Lemmy will surely add such basic feature at some point.
It'll definitely add that feature in the near future. I'm confident it'll land before/if Meta goes ActivityPub.