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Alabama condemned for nitrogen gas execution: ‘They intended to torture him’
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2024
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Why on earth is nitrogen being treated as worse than the gas chamber, electric chair, or lethal injection? All of those are way more painful, akin to torture. Nitrogen suffocation is literally the method that was selected for suicide pods because it doesn't involve any discomfort (aside from, obviously, the knowledge that you're going to die.)
Setting aside the national shame that capital punishment is, regardless of the method used, they strapped his face with a mask. He wasn't in a pod as nitrogen levels rose. He was force fed the gas with a mask that prevented him from "breathing" normally.
And even if he was in a pod where the nitrogen level rose, making his death as physically painless as possible (or so we believe), he still knows he is going to die. That's torture. It should not be legal.
I disagree that a painless execution is torture, even if I understand where you're coming from.
My objection to capital punishment isn't because I don't believe some people deserve death.
My objection is simply that innocent people are convicted all the time, but at least unjust incarceration is situation that can be reversed.
Psychological torture is still torture. Federal agents/Secret police/Military/etc. in many countries have been known to do all sorts of painless torture methods such as sleep deprivation and constant loud music. And then there are things like waterboarding, where it is almost certain that you won't die, but you will feel like you're drowning the entire time. It is torture even if you know you're going to live through the waterboarding.
Christopher Hitchens was waterboarded and wrote about how it was torture.
Torture does not have to be painful or even involve physical contact.
So if I'm sentenced to 20 years for first degree murder, is the fear and terror I feel over losing my freedom the state torturing me?
What about if my doctor's office refuses to give me my diagnosis over the phone on a Friday, and tells me I have to wait for an office appointment on Monday. Is that torture? Should I file a legal complaint or try to get charges pressed?
You're conflating internal agony and anticipatory fear, with actual externally applied methods of torture.
I understand what point you're trying to make, but words have meaning and if everything is torture, then how bad can torture really be?
None of those are knowing for certain you will die while it is happening.
If you redefine torture into any form of discomfort sure. But that is not what the word means.
"the action or practice of inflicting severe pain or suffering on someone as a punishment or in order to force them to do or say something."
So solitary is for sure torture. Normal prison shouldn't be but can for sure be in some cases. It's only slightly better than the corporeal punishments (lashes, stockade) of old in my opinion.
How would actually killing someone, with the person being killed being fully aware that it happens, as it happens. Not be "externally applied methods of torture"? Asphyxiation has been used as a method of torture for millennia.
You realize that my questions were rhetorical, right?
Re-read the comment chain, maybe you meant to reply to someone else?
No. I'm saying it's you who don't understand what torture means and your "rhetorical questions" are daft and completely unrelated to what anyone in the thread is saying.
Seeing as these all flow down from my original response, I'm pretty sure it's you who doesn't understand the context of the conversation.
Also, the torture in question wasn't the execution method. So again, I suggest you re-read the comment thread.
I'd argue that depending on the victim that 'any form' of discomfort could be considered torture. What should define torture isn't a 'commonly accepted idea of torture' but what the victim considers torture. Some people are quite fine with not having any company for example, but other people if they were socially isolated would consider this a torture, especially for a protracted period of time.
I wholeheartedly agree, no-one needs to be water-boarded to be tortured. There is a number of tortures which aren't publicly considered 'torture', such as isolation but when used for a long time should really be considered a torture. The other thing is that there are a number of things which are not considered by themselves as torture but when used in conjunction (together) are so heinous that they should be considered torture. For example, sleep deprivation AND isolation from friends/family AND physical assault.
The other thing to mention is that torture should be considered as something which is dependent on the victim. If an army corporal has their fingers cut off, then most people would say that is most definitely torture. It is most certainly abusive and wrong. But lets say, an ordinary person who isn't trained to resist torture is also tortured - for example, they are deprived from their rights to live as they usually do, love as they usually do, and act as they usually would - this is also torture. Just because no-one chopped fingers off doesn't mean that torture hasn't been committed.
Agreed, the death penalty is inherently cruel, no matter what the person has done. Especially if you make people wait for decades in a prison cell before the sentence is carried out
The decades are a function of the appeals processes; some mandatory, and others initiated by inmates.
I'm not sure fast tracking the process would be an improvement...
That's just more reason to not do it at all