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this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2024
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politics
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This is honestly the best take on the issue I've seen so far.
I am the first person to say we need to break the two-party stranglehold on politics. We need independent candidates in office yesterday. But this election is the abso-fucking-lutely worst time to make a run at that, because that third party vote WILL be a vote for Trump. And if you firmly believe that third party or independent politicians have a place, elect them to your local city council or school board or state legislature. That is where they will make a real, actionable difference.
A vote against Biden, no matter who for, is a vote for Trump. No amount of TikTok "well ackshually" will change that reality.
last election biden and harris were on the working families party line which is third party. i'm not sure this time around but do y'all even know how third party works?
>that third party vote WILL be a vote for Trump.
I object to the characterization of candidates as "third party, but as far as I know, no one calls the Republicans a third party.
Please familiarize yourself with nomenclature before joining in on the conversation. It's important we're all on the same page to avoid confusion. Objecting to semantics is fine but doesn't really add to anything in this context. It's really just a distraction.
>A vote against Biden, no matter who for, is a vote for Trump.
this is election misinformation. a vote for anyone except trump cannot be counted as a vote for trump.
The election is a tug of war. Trump and his supporters are pulling on the right. Biden and his supporters are pulling on the left.
When you vote for an independent candidate, you are removing force that could have been used to pull against Trump and redirecting that force towards a candidate who has zero chance of winning. A vote for an independent candidate is a vote for Trump.
The only valid retort to this is "well I wasn't going to vote anyway" and anyone who feels that way can shut the fuck up about everything.
No. It is a vote for an independent candidate.
Which will remove yet another barrier to Trump becoming president.
I'm all for breaking the two-party stranglehold but do it in a local election where it will make a difference. This year is the absolute worst year to try a failed presidential run.
I never advised anyone to vote for an independent candidate. I am simply correcting your misleading rhetoric.
Good advice on focusing locally for third parties.
The rhetoric isn't misleading. When voter turnout is low, ergo the total number of votes for Republicans and Democrats are low, Republicans fare better. The US uses a first-past-the-post system of voting which devolves into a two-party system. This means that voting for a third party removes votes from the total number of ballots cast for one of the two actual candidate parties, which means fewer votes for Republicans and Democrats, which usually benefits Republicans far more than Democrats.
All this to say that when you vote for a third party, Trump is more positively impacted than Biden, so you're effectively increasing Trump's chance of winning.
I agree with your general point that third party votes don't matter nationally. This is kinda blunt, but you are making the false assumption that Party politicans are entitled to everyone's votes. You can't remove a vote that was never casted for a particular candidate.
"The rhetoric isn’t misleading."
It is to me. A vote for an independent candidate does not in any way, shape, or form count as a vote for Trump. They are not the same thing.
It is a fact that a vote for an independent candidate is not tallied the same as a vote for trump. It is nonsense to say they are the same. It's like saying a vote for Hawaiian pizza is a vote for Pepperoni Pizza. It is hokum.
Do you understand that some words mean something beyond their literal, exact definition? If someone says "it's raining buckets", would you come in and say "that rhetoric is misleading, I looked outside and no buckets are falling from the sky"?
Of course. The problem is that when someone says one thing is another thing, that is not obviously metaphorical. Maybe you'd be able to tell in person but not through text where the message is monotonized and broadcasted to the entire internet.
A vote for a 3rd party candidate is IN ESSENCE a vote for Trump. There, fixed the literal reference.
>When you vote for an independent candidate, you are removing force that could have been used to pull against Trump
Jill Stein and Cornel West are running against trump.
That’s nice. They’ll lose, and the momentum put to that independent candidate is momentum that could have been used against Trump. Voting for either of them is a vote for "I am not interested in what happens in this country, and sincerely hope Trump wins. Because instead of voting against him, instead I choose to throw away my vote by making some kind of 'statement' that will never be heard by anyone."
> instead of voting against him
voting for someone who is not trump is voting against him.
Not in any way that matters.
telling people their vote doesnt matter sounds like voter suppression.
You sound like a teenager who has no concept of how voting in this country works. Yes, voting for a 3rd party candidate is not literally a vote for Trump, but the net effect is EXACTLY that. You may as well write in Bernie Sandwrs for all the good it will do.
Don’t try and gaslight with your “SoUnDs LiKe VoTeR sUpPrEsSiOn” comment.
>Don’t try and gaslight with your “SoUnDs LiKe VoTeR sUpPrEsSiOn” comment.
it's not gaslighting. it's actually what you're doing.
>voting for a 3rd party candidate is not literally a vote for Trump, but the net effect is EXACTLY that.
so does that mean voting for trump is like voting twice? no. you're spreading misinformation.
>A vote for an independent candidate is a vote for Trump.
no, it's not. stop spreading misinformation
It absolutely is. You're removing a vote that could have been used to stop Trump and throwing it into a candidate who will not win. You are, quite literally saying, "I am completely fine with another Trump presidency".
There you go again with no concept of how politics works in this country. You are either a shill, or a completely naive person. A vote for a 3rd party candidate is as effective as not voting in the national results. Can you at least see that? When electoral votes are tallied, and NONE go to a 3rd party candidate, those votes are wasted.
I wish this country had a different voting system other than first past the goal posts, but it doesn’t so you need to be realistic in your vote.
if voting for an independent candidate counts as not voting (that's a lie), and not voting is the same as voting for trump, does that mean that if i vote for trump, it is 2 votes? no.
you're spreading misinformation.