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New to Linux? Ubuntu Isn’t Your Only Option
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this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
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Imagine putting Manjaro as reliable and cutting edge over, say, Fedora.
I mean, why not? Manjaro has recent packages and actively focuses on a user-friendly experience. Which includes things like a nice installer, good automatic support for hardware out of the box, a nice GUI for the package manager, GUI managers for drivers and kernel versions, it's based on the stable Arch branch and it comes with the LTS kernel etc.
Back a few years ago when I was looking to move my desktop away (from Ubuntu, ironically) I downloaded a bunch of distro ISOs (the usual suspects, we all know them, Pop, Mint etc.) and tried the live version to see how it goes. I picked Manjaro because it was the only one that did everything perfectly. Recognized all my peripherals, network shares, played all videos and music, printer, whatever.
(I know the usual arguments against it, btw, but it's mostly unrelated stuff or outright false.)
During my six month usage of Manjaro (my introduction to Arch-based distros), my desktop broke four times and booted me to the terminal. Almost once a month. I told myself this was the price you paid for living on the edge, using a rolling release. I switched to EndeavourOS and have not had a broken desktop in two whole years.
Manjaro's handling of AUR packages is fundamentally wrong and with their design decisions it cannot be fixed. You either give up the AUR entirely, or resign yourself to constantly breaking AUR packages and having to try and fix them.
Manjaro's handling of kernels via a GUI sounds good until you realise it's entirely manual and if you don't keep checking you will end up running an unsupported, out of date kernel with Arch packages that expect a newer one. Again, Manjaro violates Arch's golden rule of avoiding partial upgrades by holding your kernels back until you manually update them in their GUI. If you're running an Arch-based distro 99% of the time you want the latest kernel and an LTS kernel as a backup, but these are already in Arch as packages (and are thus updated in lockstep with your packages, as designed) so you don't need Manjaro's special GUI. Now if you wanted a particular kernel for some reason then sure, but Manjaro's GUI doesn't even let you pick the exact version you want anyway! All you can pick is the latest version of each major release.
If you're anything like I was at the time, you think you like Manjaro but what you actually like is Arch. Manjaro just gets in the way.
How did it break? It never broke for me once in the last 4 years.
I constantly have dozens of AUR packages installed. I have 70 right now. They don't break. Everything you're writing here is false.
Sometimes dynamic linking fails for an AUR package over 6 months or more but that's because I don't update them automatically (because none of them are critical). A simple rebuild fixes that.
It's not holding kernels back. The version you select receives updates. It's not bumping major versions of that's what you mean, but that's exactly how I want it. I don't want the distro doing that for me. I do not need the latest kernel.
Wrong again. I do not like several decisions in Arch and it requires more attention than Manjaro. Manjaro attempts to offer stability and low maintenance and actually does a good job of it.
I'm an experienced Linux user but I'm lazy and I want my cake and to eat it too. I want recent packages but I don't want the risks associated with bleeding edge everything. Manjaro gives me that. You can call it "Arch for lazy people", I don't mind, it's true.
My DE broke because Manjaro added untested/beta patches from upstream, sometimes even against the developer's word. This is something that Manjaro is known for. Guess who inspired dont-ship.it?
Also I would appreciate you not calling my statements on the AUR false. I have personal experience on the matter so we can play my experiences against yours if you like, or we can listen to the official Manjaro maintainers reccommending that it not be used, as it is incompatible with the Manjaro repos. By design Manjaro holds back Arch packages, which means AUR package dependencies often do not match what is expected. This is not false. Can you use the AUR? Sure, but you must keep in mind that Manjaro was not designed for it and it will break AUR packages sometimes. Sometimes it's as simple as waiting a couple weeks for Manjaro to let new packages through, but sometimes you can't just wait several weeks and you need to fix it yourself.
And yes, Manjaro does hold kernels back because you have to specify when you want to move off a major release. You can accidentally be using an unsupported kernel and not even notice. Ask me how I know. Manjaro literally requires more maintenance than Arch on this front.
I can't comment on what maintenance Arch requires that Manjaro doesn't, as I run EndeavourOS. I've found it to be everything Manjaro wishes it was - a thin, user-friendly wrapper around Arch.
Just remember that Manjaro's official response to them forgetting to update their SSL certs was to roll back your clock, putting everyone at risk of accepting invalid certs in the process.
What DE? What patches? And isn't Arch the upstream for Manjaro?
The possibility that AUR dependencies may not be met is not false. What is false is the claim that it's a common problem. The chances of it happening are tiny. If it did happen to you please mention what AUR package(s).
It's very hard to argue with people who claim "it broke" but never give concrete examples of what broke. They make these outrageous claims and put the burden on you to prove them wrong. It's either disingenuous or done by spiteful, clueless people who genuinely don't know what they did wrong but then shouldn't go around throwing mud.
That's a feature, not a bug. I've already explained that I dislike any distro that forces major kernel changes on me. Forcing people to switch major kernel versions is dumb and dangerous. That's high maintenance for me, waking up one day to find out I'm on a different kernel and that shit doesn't work.
That is not what Manjaro is nor wishes to be. It's a derivate distro with its own goals and I find it unbelievable how much some people can hate that. It's not the first distro in history that's downstream of another, Debian has dozens of distros using it as a base and you don't see this kind of extreme reactions. I'm baffled by it.
Ah there's the old chestnut. Thank God this irrelevant fact exists; what would people bring up otherwise when all else fails.
When I say upstream that's technically upstream of upstream - I mean the application repositories. Manjaro has in the past applied their own patches on top and broken functionality. The example that comes to mind is the most heinous one where a Manjaro maintainer patched in three pull requests (including CLOSED ones) and pushed the result to their stable repo: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/merge_requests/986 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/merge_requests/1035 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/merge_requests/1060 https://forum.manjaro.org/t/manjaro-arm-beta25-with-phosh-pinephone-pinephonepro/116529/11 . Applying patches to upstream is not unheard of, but you don't do it without contacting the developer, because they are the ones going to get the bug reports. Manjaro did not notify the developers. It's this recurring trend of unprofessionalism which has tainted Manjaro's reputation, whether it's letting their SSL cert expire FOUR separate times (once, maybe twice is understandable, but more speaks to underlying issues in structure), or applying patches to applications without developer's knowledge and shipping it to users, or the two separate times they DDoSed the AUR servers with a poorly thought out pamac feature, etc..
I give no concrete examples because this all occurred almost two years ago for me at this point. I'm not out to capsize Manjaro or bring about it's demise, so I don't write down every package that breaks for use as ammunition in internet debates. I just want a distro that works for me. Manjaro wasn't that for me so I moved on. You asked why some people don't like Manjaro and I'm simply explaining why.
The AUR issue happened often enough for me to consider it frequent. It happened most often with niche packages, like the various MSP430 toolchain packages which I often needed, but I explicitly remember it happening at least once on fairly mainline packages like cemu (or was it yuzu?).
The problem is not that Manjaro allows you to pick whichever major release kernel you like, but rather that it doesn't account for this in the packaging system. You could be running kernel 6.4 (i.e. not officially supported anymore) and update your packages, resulting in a broken system with no warning. By decoupling the kernel version from the package system Manjaro unleashes a whole new failure mode. This would be fine if they accounted for this in their packaging model, but they don't (because Arch doesn't and it would be too much work to implement and support it themselves, presumably. It sounds quite tough). This tool, which is designed to make the system more stable as you say, actually can make it less stable!
Manjaro was sold to me as 'Beginner Arch', so I don't know what to tell you on that front. I don't think this is at all related to why people dislike Manjaro though: Nobody hates Ubuntu because it's based on Debian, they hate it because of their decisions, like Snaps. Likewise nobody hates Manjaro because it's Arch based, they hate it because of the decisions they've made. Manjaro isn't the only distro getting hate, but it is probably the lowest hanging fruit due to all of the administative fumbles.