this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2023
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Lefty Memes
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I think the objection that myself and other leftists would offer, is that the fight is against fascism is fundamentally a fight against, white supremacist, capitalist, patriarchy, and that capitalism is in many ways a progenitor and protector of the other two. The wealth generated by capital, captures regulatory bodies, manipulates voters, generates disinformation, all in service of perpetuating itself. A notable example is in your own comment, the power of the capital used by the fossil fuel industries to influence elections, buy political power, misinform voters, because the base scientific reality is that their industry cannot function in a world that is inhabited by people.
So for fossil fuels and tangentially, billionaires, the global issues cannot be tackled without recognizing that the core of capitalism is itself a vital part of the building of fascism.
To re-frame this in hopes of giving insight, imagine we were talking about racial justice in America, and one party was arguing that with various other ways to fight inequality, the police as an institution, have fundamentally rotten, and end goal needs to be abolition. The other party argues that we need to come together and stop the right wing fascists like proud boys, et al, that support white supremacy. So when you say we need to come together and tackle the issues without dismantling the tools that are use to create them, it sounds hallow.
We need to dismantle the tools that create fascism.
Yes, including capitalism, it's primary driver.
Absolutely. Billionaires are a scourge. (And millionaires) Greed is shit.
Indeed! So if liberalism as an ideology, wants to keep billionaires, don't you think it's a little counter to that logic to say liberals and leftists need to come together and not dismantle the primary driver of fascism?
I don't see liberalism as wanting to keep billionaires. Perhaps that was the case 20 years ago, but not anymore. Making them pay up is a tricky thing to do, but that imo is where we need to start.
GAFAM is already shattered after new EU laws are in effect
Yes. There have been some recent bold moves in the right direction
I guess I just don't see much value in opposing billionaires when liberals want to leave in place the fundamental tool they use to perpetuate their control.
Which fundamental tool are you referring to?
Private wealth that enriches an ownership class to a much greater degree than obtainable through working.
I already answered that a few posts ago. I'm here in good faith looking to find real solutions. We have a lot of power to change things with our actions as individuals as well. Boycotts work. Simple things can go a long way if people organize and spread the word. For example, we can kill the google chrome browser if folks are serious. This would likely also kill alphabet as an entity.
I am here in good faith too, I just don't think I share your belief that capitalism can be brought to heel when it has almost unfettered power and every incentive in it is towards the sort of system we have now. And that transferring that weight to an entire populous of ethical consumers just doesn't bare fruit.
Seems you gave up a long time ago and don't want to get back in the fight. I'll be over here boycotting google chrome and asking one billion others to join me. Be well and have a nice weekend!
Far from it! I have given up chrome, I just see the struggles as needing more than that. Community building with mutual aid, local gardening with permaculture are my vectors. I hope you have a nice weekend as well, and if I can beg for one thing, build networks of help for support while the systems around us fall apart!
I have to say, as an outsider reading this thread, you've played the part of the liberal perfectly.
From admitting that capitalism is the problem straight in to offering boycotting chrome of all things (seriously, what??), and taxing the rich more as a solution (hint: they're not), and pointing your fingers at individuals, and vocal anti capitalists no less, to say that it is their (our) fault for "giving up the fight" (again, seriously, what???).
You not wanting to stop fighting windmills to exhaustion while you point at everything but the actual problem is literally what those in power want you to do. That is the division I suspect most people who upvoted you initial comment thought you were talking about, not the division between liberals and leftist, which as you've demonstrated so perfectly have completely different understandings of reality and goals for action.
Leftists want to abolish the system entirely and build a new, better, one, because we understand that the systems we live under today are working as designed rather than being broken or having been corrupted in any way, while liberals want to play nicely within the rules set to all of us by our oppressors, and pull a surprised Pikachu face when no fundamental change to the status quo occurs. And the truth most liberals will never admit to themselves, is that they do this because they benefit from the status quo in some or many ways, and don't want to risk being like those they can see get treated so much worse than them, but if they pretend hard enough that it's about individual responsibility (a lie perpetuated by capitalism) they can tell themselves that'll never be them. Because they're playing by the rules. Set by their oppressors.
But as the poem goes - first they came for the socialists.
And they're already coming for you too, the question is which side of the fence will you fall on, and your replies here imply it would be the side of capitalism.
If this bothers you, do something about it, you can start by educating yourself:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/14/liberalism-and-fascism-partners-in-crime/
https://blacklikemao.medium.com/how-liberalism-helps-fascism-d4dbdcb199d9
https://truthout.org/articles/fascism-is-possible-not-in-spite-of-liberal-capitalism-but-because-of-it/
https://nyanarchist.wordpress.com/2019/01/23/scratch-a-liberal-a-fascist-bleeds-how-the-so-called-middle-class-has-enabled-oppression-for-centuries/
You offer no reasonable method of suddenly abolishing everything. This is a huge problem.
HOW? Where is a detailed plan? All I see is "Lib bad"
Did you ever consider that it is you who have never actually sought it out, or even made the effort (did you even read any of those links?) rather than it not being there (or conveniently produced by someone else's emotional labour)?
(E: not to mention buttermilk already made some great suggestions above: Community building with mutual aid, local gardening with permaculture)
None of us were born leftists, we were all born in to the same world you were and were socialised the same way. Unlearning that takes work, work that no one can do for you.
So I won't.
Instead I'm just going to paste something I recently told another person who was making almost identical arguments to you:
Join/create a union. Join/create a Food not Bombs. Actually invest your time reading up on socialism, anarchism, and becoming an anti capitalist in the way that personally suits you best, as well as what suits your community best, instead of expecting others to spoon feed you instructions.
I literally know nothing about you, where you are and what your local community needs, what your able and not to do, how much trouble you're willing to get in to or how much time and resources you have to spare, and a whole load more variables that mean I couldn't possibly tell you what to do or how.
Look up solidarity, look up dual power, look up building a community, take your own steps at your own pace.
Or don't.
All I'm saying is don't delude yourself (or others) in to thinking a boycott of a single company (or even all of them, but nothing beyond) is having any impact on anyone but you.