609
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 16 Feb 2024
609 points (98.7% liked)
politics
19104 readers
2003 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
ESOP is a thing… the question is who gets to make decisions. Is the board run by employees? I used to work for an ESOP, but the scheme was little more than a way for the founders to cash out on their investment by saddling the company with the debt to buy itself… all while still retaining control of the board. Despite being employee-owned, employees had no decision making power.
An ESOP is generally going to be better than sale to venture capital. That said for folks considering this I'd recommend conversion to a worker coop, since then employees both own the business and make decisions for the business.
My wife's company got bought out by an ESOP company. When she explained it to me, the whole thing sounded like a scam. I'm not qualified to explain it but it sounds like the stock never vests until you retire so no one has any control outside of the incompetent execs who run the thing.
Yeah… and a lot of companies use this to replace your 401k or in lieu of contributing to one. So, a big chunk of your retirement savings is tied up in the company and usually can’t be diversified until you’re pretty close to retirement age.
Alternatively, if you leave the company, many will let you take money out and roll it into an IRA, but it’s usually capped at like $5k per year. It can take a long time to get your money out.
That’s not necessarily a feature of ESOP.
My first ESOP vested 100% on day 1, we also had a 401k with matching, with a discretionary amount added from the company depending on how well the company did that year (never saw less than 10% of my salary in the years I was there). If/when you leave the company, you’re payed out within 3 years.
For my second ESOP it was a 3 year vesting schedule, no 401k matching and no discretionary amount (though ESOP contribution was ~10% of salary, depending on company performance). If/when you leave the company, you’re payed out starting at year 6, over a period of a few years (can’t remember exactly).
I say all this to demonstrate that these things can be set up very differently while all still being an ESOP generally.
Yeah, and basically my point was that ESOP doesn't mean you can't fuck over the employees. I'm sure some versions of it are really good, but until no versions of it suck, it's hard to say it's necessarily better.
It certainly is a step in the right direction, but it still allows some really shitty structures.
That said, good post and good examples.