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Lemmy.world update: Downtime today / Cloudflare (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 year ago by ruud@lemmy.world to c/lemmyworld@lemmy.world

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Today, like the past few days, we have had some downtime. Apparently some script kids are enjoying themselves by targeting our server (and others). Sorry for the inconvenience.

Most of these 'attacks' are targeted at the database, but some are more ddos-like and can be mitigated by using a CDN. Some other Lemmy servers are using Cloudflare, so we know that works. Therefore we have chosen Cloudflare as CDN / DDOS protection platform for now. We will look into other options, but we needed something to be implemented asap.

For the other attacks, we are using them to investigate and implement measures like rate limiting etc.

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[+] PropaGandalf@lemmy.world -42 points 1 year ago

Well for now we'll have to stick around with cloudflare. I'd just would like to see something managed by a decentralized network. I don't know if it exists, it's more of a sentiment or a general idea.

[-] Tibert@compuverse.uk 65 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you don't know what a content delivery network is, here : https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/cdn/what-is-a-cdn/

A CND is very costly to run in an effective way. And because it is an intermediary server between the user and content server, the market is already pretty full. So competing with the CDN giants is practically impossible in a decentralised manner.

Because of what a CDN does (cache website elements closer to the user, protect the website against ddos...), it cannot be a cheap weak server, or it's the one which will get overwhelmed by the ddos, or even the users.

Another limiting factor is that in decentralisation, that means different companies, and so many separate plans to pay, which is just impossible for a company.

If it was decentralized, a company would have to go and pay 100 different companies (which is more expensive, du to the server costs and each companies having their own staff to may (even if it's just 1 person per company)) just to offer a quick access to the users around the world, which is just impossible.

[-] muddybulldog@mylemmy.win 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A CDN isn’t a great comparison to DDOS mitigations. CDN spreads the load amongst multiple locations that are distinct entities. Any one can be down and the rest functions fine. They generally exist on separate domains and are not inherently codependent.

DDOS requires an inline solution. A layer acting as a man in the middle to deflect or absorb the traffic destined to Lemmy.world, for example. That’s not something that can be readily be decentralized while there’s only one ingress to Lemmy.world.

[-] Beetschnapps@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

It’s an interesting question but the knee jerk reaction towards decentralization isn’t always a silver bullet. Bitcoin always screamed that concept while ignoring the role of clearinghouses. Decentralization can actually compound the issue. Not to dispel the solution but good to keep these things in mind.

[-] PropaGandalf@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago

It isn't a silver bullet but in this case it is particularly suitable. I mean, the architecture of CDN is decentralised, but all these servers are controlled by ONE company. So why not leave the whole task to an independent network?

[-] woelkchen@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

I think the biggest problem with such services is that they require lots of money to run which means that any well-meaning effort will eventually end up becoming a commercial service.

[-] johntash@eviltoast.org 10 points 1 year ago

You're being down voted, but a p2p cdn is something that sort of already exists. IPFS is probably the most mature. As far as I know, it'd only work for static content though. It's also an entirely different protocol so you'd have to use some sort of local gateway or plugin to make use of it.

I have several vms and dedicated servers that I sort of use as a DIY cdn. No where near as spread out or capable as something like cloudflare, but its also not incredibly expensive to do on a small low performance scale. DDOS mitigation is another story though, generally that is best handled by large networks that can soak up the throughput.

[-] PropaGandalf@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Yeah it's also more of a potential that I wanted to point out. Over the years that I have been involved with blockchain projects, I have developed a feeling for where blockchains and decentralised networks are suitable and where they are not. In this case, however, it seems very feasible to me. In the end, CDNs are nothing more than a server network that caches the data locally and distributes the bandwidth. This is exactly what an independent network could do with the advantage of the blockchain to remunerate the contributions of the individual node operators. But I see that the notion of blockchain triggers a great aversion in most people.

[-] deepdive@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I don't have half the knowledge in IT you have, but i totally agree we should find a solution to seperate from mastadons who owns the whole network.

It's very similar to how we shouldn't give big corpos like GAFAM willingly our data/privacy or our foodchain shouldn't be controled by a few corpos who serve poison... (the list goes on).

Most people just don't care, they have nothing to hide or they won't die if they eat one cheesburger from McDonald's a week...

But in the case of lemmy I think (personal opinion) It's because it's easier, simpler, faster to setup right now. I'm sure if they had a better solution to not depend on cloudflare they would chose the other solution.

I mean your idea seems great, but how long would it take to put it inplace? How many highly qulified people are needed to make it work? How much will it cost....

I hope that in the long run, lemmy instances are going to find a better solution 😀

[-] PropaGandalf@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago

I'm only talking about the long run. For now cloudflare is a solid service. I'd love to see some experental approaches tho maybe from other smaller instances.