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this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2024
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Sorry, why is Isreal not an isolated state at this point? If they won't respond to international pressure, and indeed are intent on doubling down because of that international pressure, why even include them in international bodies?
It's so odd
Oh dude. I can confirm that for you. I grew up Roman Catholic. I know 80 percent of practicing Christians around the world just want to live and let live.
But the polling for American Christian evangelism is fucking scary. There was a deep dive into Jan 6 2020 and it turns out the evangelical community was key in planning the entire thing. They will tell you with a straight face that Sharia is bad and we should replace the Constitution with the Bible. There was an article yesterday where they proudly said women shouldn't be able to vote.
ChristoFascist is a descriptor, nothing more.
We had a crazy Christian in our office. He was 100% all-in on the prophetic books like Ezekiel and Revelations. He would go on and on about how all the current events in the Middle East, Russia, and the Caucasus were prophesied back in biblical times, and that the Rapture would happen any time now. He literally told me that if he didn't show up for work for a few days it was probably because he'd been Raptured up to heaven, and that's how we will know that the end times are upon us. Our previous CEO was also of the crazy Christian persuasion. He wasn't as loud as Rapture-boy, but definitely into Christian prophesy and numerology and applying it to current events with an eye on the end times. And I don't even live in a bible belt. This is not as uncommon as you would think.
Give him "The Salvation War" from Stuart Slate to read.
That will shut him up.
Sell it to him as a story about the rupture and the fight of the unbelievers against their destiny.
He will then find out that the story doesn't play out like the bible told... as Humanity curb-stomps hell and heaven into dust without blinking. And if he ever dares to speak the topic again, cite the book. I personally love the part when a random US marine puts a janitor on Gods throne because that guy is the only one knowing what he is doing. Though the pope excommunicating god for being not worthy also has its merit. Ah, Satan gets it too. He hides in a dirt hole from B-52 bombers.
I think you're talking about Christian Zionism which was at odds with many Orthodox rabbis who were anti-zionist early on. Crazy stuff
Fun fact: there are more Christian Zionists in the US than there are Jewish Zionists.
Why do people never follow "fun fact" with a fun fact?
Fun fact! If you befriend crows, they might bring you shiny things, but more importantly, descendants of the crows that you befriend will remember you and ALSO be your friend! Yay corvids, smart birdies!
For Crows this is also true. My Grandpa befriended a couple of Crows and even 40 years later their decendents visit us. We usually play with walnuts, they bring them to me, I open them for them and take some for myself. Smart birds, if I take more than half they get angry. But taking every second one - they are cool about that.
That's what makes it so fun!
Wait, is that by percentage or raw numbers? I know there are a ton of Christian (especially Evangelical) Zionists, but Jewish people make up less than 3% of the U.S population, so if it's by raw numbers that's kinda a meaningless comparison. Like, there are less Jewish...pretty much everything in the U.S.
Right, but if you ask "to which religion does the average Zionist in the US belong?", most people are going to say Judaism instead of Christianity.
I'd say many people don't even know that Christian Zionists are even a thing.
Fair enough. I spend a lot of time learning about right-wing extremists, so I guess I forget that it might not be common knowledge that Evangelicals support Israel because it ties into their apocalyptic death-cult prophecies.
Well, you gotta remember that in the Bible, the Jews (then Hebrews before becoming Israelites) are God's chosen people and God aids them in destroying other nationalities all the time in the Old Testament. Hence the 12 Tribes and Israel coming about.
Christians will back the 12 Tribes of Israel because they're the foundation of their religion. You can't have Christianity without accepting God chose the Jews as his people and created the Kingdom of God and distributed it amongst Jacob's 12 sons. If this is not true, nothing after it is either including Jesus as the Son of God, gentiles being accepted, and being judged be the 12 thrones in End Times.
So I think you will find most Christians support it while those that don't simply don't know their own religion too well.
So, yup! Pretty fuckin' scary. But it's not like it's anything new. Lots of people have been killed in the name of religion before us and lots of people will once we're gone.
Not really. The Catholic Church vilified Jews for over a thousand years. There's also the new testament/old testament debate. Basically Jesus 86'd the old rules and that's why Christians don't have kosher stuff.
What's the Catholic church got to do with any of that, let alone the villifying part? This is literal thousands of years before them.
They controlled the Western Christian narrative until 1517. And if Jesus gave everyone a clean slate, then does Israel have a righteous claim to the holy land?
Spoiler, they don't recognize Israel as an authority over Jerusalem.
Did not realise Western society and the Roman church were involved in the Torah—shit, don't tell the Muslims.
You're not incorrect, I just still have no idea why you're raising such things way ahead in history.
Do you not understand how history works? That position between us and the alleged events means they got to edit, add, and delete all kinds of shit before we were ever born.
So when they control the European narrative from 300 CE to 1500 CE; that then informs what everyone after them thinks. Including the Protestants.
Even the Bible that people think of as the standard Bible was a project by King James because the Calvinists Bible wasn't appropriately respectful of divine monarchy in his opinion. And having nothing much else to base it on at the time, it's based on the Catholic Bible and a few previous attempts to convert the Catholic Bible to the English Church. Then Evangelists turned to the Scofield Bible in the 1900's; which was just a well annotated King James Bible.
The evangelists who support Israel because they believe they'll see Jesus again are still stuck on the Scofield Bible.
It's not until you get to the NIV that people are trying to reach back to archeologically recovered Greek, Cyrillic, and Latin Bibles to create one not based on Catholic meddling for over a thousand years. And neither the Catholics or Conservative Evangelists are willing to do anything with the NIV. And congregations using the NIV still have to contend with a lifetime of using previous Bibles and dogma from other churches.
So do you understand why the Catholic Church is important to Christian ideology in the the US yet?
Okay.
And what of any of that has to do with what I said and the history of the Jewish people in Israel?
I know you don't mean this and what you're saying is not incorrect, but in context you're essentially saying Abrahamic religions are founded on the influences of the Christian church and modern day Americans. Perhaps rather than a stance of disagreement, you should have had one of raising additional points that occured much further along the historical timeline and how they may influence (pecifically) US Christians today.
This was you several comments ago.
This is demonstrably wrong. If you want to argue that Christians are hypocrites then fine. But the mere existence of that story doesn't create an obligation and most Christians don't even connect that to modern Israel.
I'm arguing nothing. You are. Though, I don't know what at since it's entirely disassociated from anything I said and everything I've since said is just this sentence repeated. And yet here you are, still going...
And the sky is pink polka dots, sure.
Great perspective, I enjoyed reading that thank you
Israel has a strong backing from the US. It is part of their Modus op since early 1900s which is to get a strong backer. Earlier, British was their patron and that's how they get their foots in Palestine. Sometimes in 1930s or 40s (if I am not mistaken), they managed to get close support from the US, that became their new patron, and they reduced their dependence to the British at that point and even committed terror campaigned against them so that the British wouldn't be in their way to gain Palestinian territories.
So, why would they care about international pressure/support when the US is with them. It's not necessary, as the international community won't be able to do much as long as some powerful body is always be behind them.
A couple of details you got wrong Israel didn't exist until 1948, until then the area was the Brit Mandate over Palestine.
After WW1 the UK was granted control of the area from the former Ottoman Syria by the league of nations in 1920, under what was called Mandatory Palestine.
Yes I got it wrong. Instead of Israel, It should have written Zionism, the foundation of Israel that we see today. Zionism continues through modern Israel, and Israel doesn't exist under thin air.
Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with my statements of British and US backing. They reduced their reliance on the British after WW2.
They called it israel before 1948 so that statement is correct. According to countries surrounding Palestine your other statement is actually wrong.