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this post was submitted on 11 Mar 2024
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FWIW the New York jury found that she didn't prove he forced his penis inside of her. They found he did force his fingers inside of her vagina. In New York state law, that is sexual assault but not rape. It is rape according to federal law, and most colloquial uses of the term "rape." Donald Trump raped E. Jean Carroll, that is what was proven in court.
He wasn't charged with rape in either state or federal court, because the statute of limitations had expired when she went public with her story.
So it's important to be clear, the jury did not find him innocent of rape. They found he did commit an act that is widely considered rape. It's inaccurate to say that they found he didn't rape her. They found that the act that had been proven did not meet the narrow New York state law standard for rape.
I thought it was that he put something inside her, but she was unable to clarify if it was his penis or finger.
Either way, it would have been tiny and malformed.
-NYT (see below)
Whole incident:
I’d never seen it specified exactly… horrible to read.
And the part where he sicced the goon squad on her while claiming the whole story was made up?
Juries never find you innocent of anything. They find you not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That is a big difference.
Anyone who claims that a court found them innocent is lying.
Fine, but they also did not find him "not guilty" of rape because he wasn't charged with rape. He was sued for making defamatory statements, and the jury found that he had forcibly penetrated her with his fingers and then claimed he didn't.
That is rape. In New York, it would not be enough to convict him of rape, but he wasn't on trial for rape so the New York State legal definition is irrelevant. He was not found "not guilty" of rape.
Maybe, but the judge also clarified that he would be guilty of rape had the statute of limitations not run out.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/01/a-federal-judge-has-gone-to-great-lengths-to-make-clear-trump-really-did-rape-e-jean-carroll/
The judge said exactly what I said. He did not say that Trump would be guilty of rape, he said that Trump raped Carroll. There's a difference.
The linked article says nothing about this. Do you have a different source? I'm really doubtful that the judge would say something this presumptuous about criminal liability, especially predicting guilt against a real defendant in a trial that has not happened.
This was a civil case, not a criminal case. They were deciding liability not guilt.
And no one is innocent if you count original sin. Boom!
BTW, 'guilty beyond a reasonable doubt' is the determinative threshold for criminal litigation. It's less strict for civil.