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I am not a native English speaker and I have sometimes referred to people as male and female (as that is what I have been taught) but I have received some backlash in some cases, especially for the word "female", is there some negative thought in the word which I am unaware of?

I don't know if this is the best place to ask, if it's not appropriate I have no problem to delete it ^^

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[-] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 197 points 8 months ago

Female as an adjective is perfectly fine.

A female patient, a female politician, a female customer, etc. That's the best way to refer to those.

What's bad is using 'female' as a noun: "A female. "

In general, you just don't use adjectives-as-nouns to refer to people. You don't call someone "a gay", "a black", or "a Chinese". That is offensive, and "a female" has the same kind of feel.

(there are exceptions to the above: you can call someone 'an American' or 'A German", but not "A French". I don't understand why - if you can't feel your way, best just avoid it)

Now, you could get around it by calling someone "a female person" - except that we already have a word for "female person", and that's "woman". And to go out of your way to avoid saying "woman" makes you sound like some kind of incel weirdo, and you don't want that.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 71 points 8 months ago

And to go out of your way to avoid saying “woman” makes you sound like some kind of incel weirdo, and you don’t want that.

I'd just like to emphasise this. It's not that using a different term is intrinsically bad, it's just that the people who tend to do it are not cool and you don't want to look like you're associated with them.

[-] dandroid@sh.itjust.works 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

When I was growing up, saying woman was offensive, because it made people feel old. So we would say "girl". But now It's flipped. Saying "girl" makes people feel too young, apparently.

I'm still kind of adjusting. The word "woman" still feels icky to me because I was berated for saying it as a kid.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 8 months ago

Huh, interesting. Which generation are you from, out of curiosity?

[-] dandroid@sh.itjust.works 4 points 8 months ago

I'm a millennial. It could also have been regional as well, I have no clue.

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[-] pr06lefs@lemmy.ml 19 points 8 months ago

Interesting point with adjectives vs nouns.

'a Frenchman' would be more correct than 'a French'. Because French is only an adjective, while American and German are both nouns and adjectives. But Frenchman is not gender neutral like German or American.

Could go with Francophone, but that's any french speaking person so that includes canadians, africans, etc.

And, it would seem to make sense to go with Frank, but the Franks were originally germans, then expanded their territory to include France, and the name stuck there but not in their original territory, so is it really correct to refer to the French as Franks? Since no one does it, I would guess not.

[-] amelia@feddit.de 2 points 8 months ago

Not a native speaker here. Would a French woman also be 'a Frenchman's and if not, how would you refer to a French woman correctly?

[-] pr06lefs@lemmy.ml 4 points 8 months ago

"Frenchwoman" perhaps? But that sounds a bit dated to me. I'd probably go with "French person" or "French people".

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[-] Silentiea@lemm.ee 14 points 8 months ago

except that we already have a word for "female person", and that's "woman". And to go out of your way to avoid saying "woman" makes you sound like some kind of incel weirdo

Sounds more like a terf or "gender critical" person, but maybe that's just my experience.

[-] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 10 points 8 months ago

Unless you're a ferengi. /s

I think a big part that's skeevy to me is that gender and sex are comparatively unimportant individual traits, referring to someone by their gender happens far more often for women and it's a hold over of misogyny. There are much more interesting individual traits that identify us than our sex or presented gender.

[-] Anamnesis@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

You can soften "a black" or "a Chinese" entirely by adding "person" to the end of it. English is weird.

[-] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

Right, because that makes it an adjective.

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[-] maryjayjay@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

"the suspect is a six foot, white male"

Sounds fine to me

[-] Paradachshund@lemmy.today 22 points 8 months ago

"I was just visiting my friend, a six foot white male"

A little weirder. Context is everything.

[-] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 8 months ago

Well yeah, why would I need a description of your friend unless it pertains to an upcoming story, and why not use his name if you know it? The cop can't usually say "It was Steve what done it" because most places aren't Mayberry.

[-] Queen___Bee@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I think that's because the descriptors come after the noun in reporting. Similar to how documentation is done for other professions, like healthcare. If it's out of the context of reporting, or other situations listed in the site below, it sounds grammatically strange or rude.

https://myenglishgrammar.com/lessons/adjectives-function-as-nouns/

Source: I'm in healthcare.

~Anti~ ~Commercial-AI~ ~license~ ~(CC~ ~By-NC-SA~ ~4.0~

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[-] Silentiea@lemm.ee 10 points 8 months ago

Because the police never try to dehumanize "suspects" and "perpetrators".

[-] mdhughes@lemmy.ml 10 points 8 months ago

Cops (ACAB) are not a good example for moral treatment of others.

[-] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 8 months ago

Besides, this is basically jargon. That has its own set of rules.

[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

My wife tells me that using as an adjective is just as bad and that I should always say "woman", e.g. a woman politician and never a female politician.

I generally disagree and it seems fine and not disrespectful at all. But it's somehat less up to me - I'm not a female.

[-] Kazumara@feddit.de 11 points 8 months ago

My wife tells me that using as an adjective is just as bad and that I should always say “woman”, e.g. a woman politician and never a female politician.

Using a noun as an adjective is just weird, honestly.

[-] investorsexchange@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 months ago

I think that a good rule of thumb is: would you say “male doctor” or “male politician”? If not, is the professional’s gender relevant? Probably not, in which case it sounds pejorative to include it.

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this post was submitted on 11 Mar 2024
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