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this post was submitted on 14 Mar 2024
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politics
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Yeah and while it's ok and good for blue team punters to lecture ("ignorant", "petulant") non-biden voters or genocide haters on how important it is to" swallow what they don't like and vote D", just try and lecture them on any political history or conditions that led to your concerns. Anything that goes against their little sports team sends them into a tizzy
Im guessing they get mad cuz the tv told them to. They really just don't understand why others won't buy into their ridiculously simplistic worldview and it gets them breathing hard
Then do something different?
Moderate politics have dominated the Democratic party for decades and within that time the Republican party has only grown to be a bigger problem. The strategies of the Democratic party are extremely dated. It's time to try something new.
Hahaha yeah that's the stuff i mean. I'm saying you guys learned that position from the boob tube. They told you it was the voters who were to blame and y'all bought it.
I, a voter, am playing games. Me. A powerless, voiceless voter is to blame for...(checks your comment) Trump. Now too the voters are given the responsibility of getting rid of him.
Wanna guess which party i voted for in 2016 and 2020? I bet you think i abstained or some shit. No, i did not. I am still responsible for Trump somehow in your mind.
Was it my words that have trump the victory in 2016? Because i wasnt happy to vote for Hillbill but i did.
My words didn't stop Biden from being elected in 2020. I Didn't like Biden, Said it very often that i hated him but he got the nom, i held my nose and pushed the big D button.
I guess my voicing displeasure about that changed the minds of countless people. Is that your point? That i am a voice of my people?
Maybe i should look into my civic duty and need to be a cheerleader as well?
What in your mind must i do? If it's stump for Biden i won't. In fact, i don't go around telling people how to vote. I do go around pointing out woeful Dem inadequacies at every turn.
When i come across a "true believer" such as you, with a hard on for lecturing but not much else, what would make someone like you see that i believe i am doing what i should be, that i am a patriot, that bringing up very real issues and contradictions in a political party is what i believe my civic duty to be?
I guess your answer to the age old question of "what would you do if you were in Germany when Hitler was rising to power" is:
"I would dwell on all the problems with his opposition, and then sit smugly that I did the right thing in pursuit of 'perfect'. It's not my fault that Hitler took power, and I wash my hands of everything he and his followers are doing"
To put it more plainly - loudly complaining that Biden is bad, dems are bad, etc etc is polarizing people against voting blue/Biden. You may suck it up and vote blue in the end, but look around. Lemmy is full of hardline progressives that have stated they will refuse to vote for Biden in the general election if he doesn't cut support for Isreal.
Criticism is fine, but it's extremely important to keep it in perspective, and remind people to vote blue regardless, because it is not an exaggeration when we say we are literally up against fascism and tyranny.
To put it succinctly, support for Gaza is not on the ballot. Support for continued democracy is.
What kind of democracy is that?
Err... the US is a constitutional federal republic, not a direct democracy. So, the answer is: N/A
So support for continued democracy is not on the ballot then?
Not explicitly, no, it is not. If anything it would be a continuation of our constitutional federated republic, but that's not spelled out either.
Is our constitutional federated republic important to the people who want to keep supplying arms to Israel?
I don't know. You would have to ask them.
Well, given they're (apparently) unwilling to give up sending weapons to Israel in order to defend this constitutional federated republic I'm gonna go with "no".
I'm disappointed but not surprised. American munitions is one of our few industries in great demand worldwide, and lobbyists from arms companies are extremely numerous in DC.
I'm not surprised either, but I won't be supporting it.
Trump has literally said he wants to be a dictator, so it's more of the same or war and chaos and mass arrests and oppression
Sounds like cutting off arms supplies to Israel is a bargain then. Moderates should be happy to compromise on that in order to support continued democracy yes?
Sure, but he doesn't actually have the power to do that unilaterally without consequences as some people think.
Are those consequences worse than discontinuation of Democracy?
Considering the potential consequences includes the risk of losing the election to Trump? They're the same picture.
Let's dissect that shall we? So you're saying there are people who voted for Biden in the 2020 general election who would not vote for him in the 2024 general election if he cuts off weapon shipments to Israel?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/20/politics/polling-democrats-divided-israel-palestine/index.html
Unfortunately yes, it would be nice if the world was perfect, but it's not
Here's a crazy idea: Spend your time and energy shaming those people for being shitty.
I agree with this at least.
This i do not. I mean i do get what youre sayin, but that's just too reductive for me. My personal feelings after many years being a registered Democrat is that they don't represent my interests at all. Maybe they used to, but there's been a change and i need production not promises. I think it's long past too late for us folks to get the Dems to listen to us, and there's only one thing i know how to do when im in a bad relationship i dunno how to fix.
Leave.
Anything other than that is enabling the toxic behavior, and no amount of my exes gaslighting will get me to return to her. You can have her but keep in mind she's gonna hurt you too, eventually.
Peace
Uh huh. So what you're saying is that you actually won't (and probably didn't) hold your nose and vote blue because you realize what's at stake. So your above arguments were in bad faith. Got it.
Peace.
Lol is they're anything in your toolbox i haven't heard already? Doesn't it irk you that you sound exactly like errybody else? I mean, i even tried to leave things nice and talk honestly despite your baiting me before. Multiple insults. I thought id go ahead and speak my thoughts, and this is how you repay me.
I would consider thinking very very hard about what you are trying to accomplish but speaking to others like me.
If your goal is changing minds it's probably better for your cause (the honorable cause of democracy, one insult at a time!) if you just... Don't.
Cuz this aint it fella.
Now if your goal is to fluff your nuts while sneering at progressive minds so you can feel better about your own intellect, keep it up! That there is a gift that keeps on giving!
You're never gonna climax with me but there are plenty fish in the sea.
> the same rhetoric from 2016 that led to us getting Trump as president, which we’ll be feeling the pain of for generations.
50 years of democrats helping guide the country got us trump. hell, hillary made sure trump was her opponent in the general. the democrat party is what got us trump in 2016, along with all the people who voted for him.