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Israeli Hostage Says She Was Sexually Assaulted and Tortured in Gaza
(www.nytimes.com)
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this post was submitted on 26 Mar 2024
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NYT is such an serious outlet. They NEVER lied about things. They never lied about Gaddafi, Hussein, Assad, Putin, WMDs, war on terror, war on drugs, China, Venezuela, Nicarágua, México, Jamaica, Yugoslavia, Soviet Union, Julian Assange, Snowden. Never!
So much for "believe victims".
I guarantee some of these deniers were saying "believe all women" or "believe all victims" before.
Believe all unless they're Israeli. As said by many comments here...
If Gaza goes on a massive offensive and bombs the shit out of Israel, these people will celebrate it and claim they deserve it.
We also don't call Nazis victims when they face retaliation for their crimes against humanity either.
We also generally don't condone retaliation against civilians for the actions of the government. We didn't punish all Germans for what the Nazis did. Let's not punish civilians for what Israel's doing.
Otherwise? You're closer to those Nazis than not.
Civilians don't typically hang out in occupied territory.
If you believe that the murder of all Israelis is just, come out and actually say it. Don't be shy now.
Oh, come on now. And what, exactly, do you want to happen the evil Zionists?
Sure, it'd be nice if there was a cute kumbaya moment, but absent that, if Israelis have no desire to leave, what do you want to happen to them?
The implication of your proposition is that only genocide can decide this.
Your assumption is ludicrous and fascist. It says everything that needs to be said about your beliefs. By assuming only bloodshed is the solution, you remove the responsibility for you to face the genocide you are supporting.
I would have a criminal investigation and follow-up to this genocide similar to the Nuremberg Trials.
I want the people responsible locked up for life, and I want freedom for the people of Palestine.
So how about you? Can you honestly answer what exactly you want out of this?
Okay, so who are the people responsible? A handful of leaders? Most of the original Zionists have been dead for a long time. Is it literally every single Israeli? What exactly does this freedom and justice look like? I don't think locking up Netanyahu and Ben Gvir would exactly satisfy the Palestinian cause, so ultimately, you have the situation of millions of Israelis, most of which were born there, who do not want to leave and will only do so by force.
So, what do you want? The forced removal of all Israelis? That's not an inconsistent position given your general perspective, but if that's the case, come out and actually say it.
You've said a lot of nice abstract things about wanting freedom and justice, and very little actual concrete info about the situation on the ground.
It's sadly ironic that these people who go "you don't think killing all of them is justified? You're just a genocidal Nazi yourself!" don't realize they're acting the exact same way as Netanyahu and the IDF. If you don't support their absolutist violence, you're an antisemite who wants Hamas to kill all Israelis.
They'll make all sorts of excuses, but at the end of the day, they use the exact same underlying ideology/argument that is being used to justify genocide.
It's just amusing that these people know that they can't openly say "I think all Israelis should be either removed or murdered", so they'll just heavily imply it without having the balls to actually own up to their position.
Speaking as someone who would not at all be upset to see a rocket happen to fall on Netanyahu and Ben Gvir.
It's fairly obvious who's a bad actor and who actually wants peace. I mean, if someone says "it's wrong to kill children, but", that tells you everything you need to know.
Frankly, it's the same behavior as conservatives. They look at the people affected and then decide how they feel about the act. They don't universally condemn the act.
Gish gallop.
You made an absolute out of genocide and then kited right past the fact your original stance was an absolute acceptance of genocide despite the obvious other answers.
You will not stop clawing to justify the genocide, I don't care to continue debating genocidal nazis.
You're the one who seems to be incapable of actually stating a concrete desire that isn't the violent removal or murder of all Israeli citizens, but by all means, tell me how I'm the genocidal one.
Is an Israeli child born in Tel Aviv a genocidal Nazi? Is it okay if they're captured by Hamas?
I really hope your response is an unequivocal no. We don't kill people for the sins of their fathers. We can expect them to make things right and work towards equity and peace, but they shouldn't be punished.
Part of the issue with this conflict is how long Israel has now existed and is established. There are people who have nothing to do with the Zionists. They shouldn't be punished for what the Zionists have done and are doing. There will never be peace if you continue to kill people for what their ancestors did.
How many Israeli children starved to death yesterday?
Nazis had children too and didn't justify the actions of the Nazis.
Would it be justified to bomb the homes of the Nazis to kill them if it also meant killing their children?
I dont think I have to answer that to say it is wrong to starve children to death.
What if it's Nazis who are starved in the process? What if you're starving an entire German city in WW2 to out the Nazis and kill them? Would you say the same thing?
Somehow, I think you're going to deflect once again and call me a genocide apologist because I'm asking if you disavow violence against innocents in all circumstances. I suppose I'll wait for that response before I say anything else.
Yeah they do? It's how governments and groups try to legitimize their occupation and claims. It's how the USSR operated in Eastern Europe with Russification.
That does not make it acceptable to kill the civilians. Russian citizens in Crimea are not enemy combatants. They can be evicted if they won't peacefully integrate with the rightful owning country, but they shouldn't be raped or killed.
Note that this is very different from the Israeli settlers. They exist in a grey area because they are committing violence against the Palestinians there and generally being awful shitheads and active colonizers.
Yea, if an invading force is slaughtering people to conquer your home, they are no longer just civilians. They are active combatants.
Do you not see any distinction between the actual military forces invading and slaughtering your people versus civilians who are living nearby?
I'm stating the difference between an invader and a civilian distinctly.
Your inability to address what I've said isn't my problem.
You're being clear as mud.
Let me just ask unequivocally -- do you think every Israeli person, regardless of where they live in the country, is an invader and a legitimate target?
Okay I see what you mean but while I'd like them to be lying as much as the next person this one is pretty damning.
True. This time they are not doing war propaganda. Because they never do