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this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2024
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Unfortunately, it doesn't matter. The people equating the two will loudly proclaim to be leftists while simultaneously saying that Trump wasn't actually trying to interrupt the certification of Joe Biden, and that Trump actually was trying to STOP the 'unruly protest'. No amount of arguing can get through to people who have no interests other than smug contrarianism.
It does matter. Minds have to be changed one at a time. A constant drip is better than nothing.
This was strangely reassuring 🥹
I have yet to meet a leftist who doesn't think Trump is a piece of shit fash nepo baby rapist whose death will be celebrated. And I'm terminally online.
Stick around on here for a while - unfortunately, they're a constant problem.
^This one right here is a prime example.
https://kbin.social/m/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone/t/927066/Please-for-the-love-of-God-VOTE#entry-comment-5929712
lmao.
I just met one. He doesn't think that Trump is a fascist. He thinks that Trump and Biden are the same. The thinks that we should bring the whole system of oppression down. He doesn't realise that in order to make change happen, we must make allies, that electing someone who wants to bring the democracy (even though it is flawed) is worse for his goals. He even repeats right wing propaganda.
They are few, but sometimes they can appear.
Learn to tell the difference between leftists and right wing trolls. Anyone can call themselves a leftist. There is no leadership in the leftist movements that have come within a thousand miles of equating Trump and Biden. Biden is an old school right wing corporate Democrat, not fascist Trumpian garbage.
Hence "loudly proclaim to be leftists". But many of them aren't trolls, at least not in the sense of not meaning what they're saying.
A real king doesn't need to say they are the king.
right wing corporatocracy is fascism.
Unfortunately, as bad as it is, it’s not. True fascism is much much worse
Mussolini would disagree, as well as any of the anarchist or communists he stabbed in the back.
Are you saying that Biden is fascist, or that he isn't a right wing corporatist? If Biden is fascist, what is Trump? Neoliberalism is on the far left (or centrist) side of right wing corporatism, and fascism is the far right side.
Neoliberalism thinks power comes from meritocracy, and Fascism thinks it comes from moral superiority. The first is rooted in the merchant class, and the other with the divine right of kings. That's why fascists turn on Jews so often, because they associate Jews with wealth and Christians with royalty or ecclesiastical power.
Mussolini made no such distinction. mechanized military states meet all the hallmarks of fascism: primacy of the state, and alignment of institutions with the interest of the state.
Neoliberalism is better described as alignment of the state with the interests of institutions. It's almost worse, except that the interests of different institutions aren't all aligned.
the state still has primacy, and the corporations are both chartered by the state and are subject to capricious prosecution for a myriad of laws if they threaten the power of the state.
US corporations don't seem particularly threatened by the state. Look how much trouble the all powerful state has had prosecuting just one obviously guilty as hell oligarch with a tiny fraction of the wealth controlled by the big corporations.
Anyone who claims to be leftist and doesn't think trump committed insurrection is trolling you. Believing Biden is just as bad is another matter entirely.
https://kbin.social/m/politicalmemes@lemmy.world/t/927705/Please-for-the-love-of-God-VOTE#entry-comment-5928401
You see this kind of comment intermittently from certain kinds of self-proclaimed leftists, where they parrot Trumpian claims about how he was actually trying to STOP the insurrection and is Totally Innocent and therefore it's Not A Big Deal if he wins again. Anything to feel better about helping him win against the filthy neolib Biden.
... is it? Because last I checked, there was a big difference between "Tried to overthrow a democratic process" and "Did not try to do so".
You looked at the bait and decided to take a bite
no one is equating them.
I think people have a hard time encountering criticism of Biden without reading into it some sort of comparative statement that is not usually intended. I have personally encountered this many times. I can even go out of my way to say things like "of course Trump is much worse" in various levels of detail and yet, without fail, someone will come along and say that by not offering unquestioning support to Biden I'm a secret Trump supporter trying to undermine Biden or some other wild accusation. I believe this type of interaction is most responsible for perpetuating the idea that people believe the two men are similar. By contrast I rarely see that opinion offered directly.
Not so much as a secret Trump supporter as helping to muddy the waters. There are many, many valid criticisms to make of Biden (and even more things to validly praise, oddly enough never covered in the press....)
I think the problem people have with criticism, valid or otherwise, is that this is no time to raise any doubt whatsoever about who should be president next. Yes, that's a propagandist's position. It's also the only morally and practically correct one given the existential challenge we face.
No dissent during an election cycle, got it.
2016 was not long ago. "Valid dissent" is what successfully disenfranchised enough voters to give us Trump, which we will spend a lifetime recovering from.
You people have a very short memory.
Like I said: No dissent in an election cycle.
And the neat part is that election cycles don't ever stop.
So we have zero dissent.
Yay democracy.
Also: What you mean "you people?" That sounds like you're being needlessly divisive, trying to paint progressives as disloyal.
I bet you're one of those IRA agents infiltrating message boards.
And you sound like someone who would be complicit with electing Hitler pre-WW2 because his political rivals weren't perfect matches to your ideals.
Wake the fuck up. You get "divisive" replies from people like me because we're tired of your intellectually dishonest "what, I can't voice dissent?" when democracy is actually in major jeopardy this very moment. This isn't some hypothetical.
You whine about people shutting down your bullshit because we're fed up with it. But the other side is literally facism that would likely evolve into actual imprisonment for "voicing dissent".
And that's not hyperbole. Dictatorships around the world currently do that. Trumps own lawyers argued that the sitting president cannot be guilty of any crimes, that they can literally assassinate rivals.
Again, that is not hyperbole. That is fact.
Holy cow, y'all are more deranged than I thought