249
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 03 Apr 2024
249 points (96.3% liked)
World News
39001 readers
1038 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
We're crossing very quickly into the level of speculation, which is not a good ground for discussion.
Still, if you need my opinions: Nothing stops Zelensky and NATO to call for joint peace talks with Russia; in fact, many NATO member countries suggested exactly that. It is then remained to be seen on what Russia answers, but the attempt should be there, and there's a high chance it will be answered in a positive way. Russia has no interest in keeping this war going, too, and has little perspective of breaking the stalemate in a short time.
The LPR/DPR forces are not civilians, and I'm talking about peaceful transition of some of the occupied territories into Russia, which is totally unrelated to what you say. Still, from the perspective of those forces, they were already fighting there with those weapons, but now they got actual military backing.
No war can truly be won, and if what it takes for Ukrainian victory is many more years of war and millions of lives, as well as unfathomable economic losses, is it worth it? That's not to mention that nothing indicates Ukraine is likely to win and restore its territory at all.
You mean Russia does a complete 180 all of a sudden, that is. If they want to, sure, they can give us a call but until they actually do it doesn't make sense to "call for peace talks": Has been done, Russia refused anything that would be acceptable to anyone else.
Indeed not. They're civilians forced at gun-point and point to the heads of their family to pick up arms and be counted as combatants. When Ukraine shoots them, they're not civilians. When they get forced into service, they are civilians.
What do you mean? According to Russia those territories already are Russia. Even parts that aren't occupied.
Yes. Because if you don't stop a bully in their tracks you embolden them and there's going to be a next victim.
The Brits have a word for people like you: Appeasers. It's not a nice word.
No 180 required. Russia is willing to come to peace, and will probably require succession of Donbass, which is something Zelensky is adamant about not doing despite being offered that way out.
For all I'm aware, LPR/DPR combatants are not forced into service at gunpoint. You know who is? Ukrainian soldiers (and some Russian ones, too).
I mean internationally recognized transition and end of the war.
Who's gonna be a next victim, if I may ask? Just about every neighbor of Russia to the West is already part of NATO (except Belarus, and, well, Ukraine), and most of those on the South and East have some form of guarantees of their own or ability to stand up for themselves and kick Russia's ass.
The aftermath of this conflict is that the countries at highest risk already defended and prepared themselves, so that Putin cannot call for another war.
Also, let's avoid turning it personal. Either keep it civil or end it. I offer you an option to leave the discussion if it triggers you.
Ah, yes, the "stop fighting and let me kick you" school of pacifism.
If nothing else, he's a politician. Politicians want to stay in power, not be disposed off by their people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_mobilization_in_the_Donetsk_People%27s_Republic_and_the_Luhansk_People%27s_Republic
If NATO drops Ukraine Putin will consider NATO weak, a paper tiger, and not hesitate attacking NATO land. Especially if the US loses the rest of the bit of sense they have and re-elect Trump. They of course won't get anywhere with that and it will be nigh impossible to keep the Poles from marching straight to Moscow, the mad bastards aren't afraid to get nuked over it, but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't try.
And no Georgia and the -stans aren't really up to defending themselves, not against a Russia which had a couple of years to lick their wounds.
Fair pick against "let us kick each other to death"
The will to stay in power population be damned is bloody dictatorship.
Thank you for info on LPR/DPR mobilization. Worth noting it happened in all participants of the conflict, however.
NATO is very much not a paper tigerz and the risk is just not worth taking.
That's not what I said, or what the situation on the ground is. If Zelensky were to trade away territory the people would get rid of him. Ukraine is a democracy, even if he wanted to he couldn't act against the overwhelming will of the people.
It's a massive difference whether you draft for offensive or defensive purposes. Also, whether or not you throw people at the enemy with or without training and even weapons. That's a thing that very much does not happen in Ukraine.
Objectively, yes. But what matters for Putin's decision is not objective reality but his subjective judgement. "Talk softly and carry a big stick" doesn't really work if you have someone who thinks that "talks softly" means "doesn't have it in them to use the stick". Russia overall seems to think that ruthlessness is something you have to train, develop, and they pride themselves in having done it -- in reality, it's the other way around.
Is an overwhelming will and war sentiment even there? Because I can't seem to notice signs of that.
My point around NATO is that since it's objectively not a "paper tiger", it will respond should Putin be mad enough to attack a NATO country. The escalation will be very quick, and the reaction very overwhelming for Russian forces. And, as politically mad as Putin is, he does understand a thing or two about politics and NATO.
You mean of the people in the street cheering for marching troops kind of thing? Ukraine isn't the country for that, they don't like war, but when needs be then needs be and the polls show that.
His understanding is of the cunning, not smart kind. If he was actually smart he wouldn't have started this whole shitshow in the first place. He would've long understood that his underlings are feeding him bad info out of a desire to look good and counter-steered, and not made various other fatal strategic blunders. Maybe there's a reason why he never ranked higher than Lieutenant in the KGB.
Could you please link the polls again?
He's smart enough not to attack a NATO country, and even if not, he'd quickly pay the full price for such actions.