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this post was submitted on 10 Apr 2024
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Asklemmy
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A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
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The whole of Lemmy is, in general, severely under-moderated.
Part of it is personnel (being a moderator is a crappy job and we don’t have the people to do it) but it’s also ideological. A lot of people here believe that allowing disruptive speech is better than suppressing expression.
That’s a choice and we live with the consequences.
I mean, let's be clear: The choice lies with the users. If users want to allow disruptive speech (or what's worse), they can go to the instances/communities that allow that kind of speech. If not, they can go to other instances/communities that have stricter moderation.
You don't have to personally live with it - go somewhere else if you don't like where you are right now.
This place is like a black mirror episode. "It's okay, just block the Nazis and it's like they're not there terrorizing and indoctrinating others, bc I can't see it"
If your instance admins haven't defederated with the nazi instances yet you gotta talk to them my friend. You could also move to a different instance that has defederated from the nazi instances, I think most have.
I don't mean each user needs to block people, I mean go to instances and communities that are well-moderated.
I have been spending relatively more time on Bluesky now you mention it. They way they do block propagation is just 😘👌
What is block propagation?
I’m not super sharp about the details, but if you block someone, by default other people don’t see their replies on your stuff. There may be more features but I’m not sure.
Anyway, it remains functional even when overrun with shitheads because not everyone needs to block everyone.
I see.
I feel like defederation is the tool for this on the Fediverse. But just to be clear, when I said "go somewhere else if you don’t like where you are right now" I didn't mean go away from the Fediverse, I just meant another community or instance basically.
I would argue that defederation is a completely fucking brain dead way to deal with bad faith users.
And the “fediverse” has no answers here.
How come? I mean if there is a concentration of bad faith users on an instance or maybe the instance attracts such types because it has no rules or directly encourages such behaviour, is it not good that other instances can choose not to interact with that instance?
Try being a bad faith actor for a week and see how much defederation affects you.
It’s just drama fuel that does nothing to improve the quality of discourse on the network because it’s trivially bypassed.
It only punishes users with permanent identities, that is good faith users. Trolls just move. They do it all the time anyway to evade blocks.
But isn't that the case on all platforms? How can you get around this? Could the Fediverse do better somehow?
Listen, it’s clear you have not given this much thought. That’s ok. But I feel I’m wasting my breath here.
And you've presented no solutions; so you have wasted your breath, and inconvenienced untold scores of electrons with your whingefest.
Sorry, I'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong or anything, I'm genuinely curious what you think. I'm curious if there's a way to do better. Sorry if I offended you.
Yeah. Maybe if mods weren't constantly removing factual information as "disinformation", you'd have a point.
But again, you choose your mods. If you think your mods are being unreasonable, use other communities with better mods - or start your own community and become the better mod yourself.
It's a "this type of website" problem, not limited to one page or instance.
Hmm. Maybe? I'd like to think it's possible to do a website of this type without those problems. But I could be wrong I guess.
You think moderators remove those comments? (/s)
Protip: by replying to a comment on many apps, you can see the content of the comment. This can be very useful.
You can also check the modlogs. They can be really revealing.
Which one? There’s one on every instance.
The best one of course
I noticed somebody who wrote "death to amerikkka" was given official mod sanction (saying that it was a country not a people group) so I made the same comment about the CCP.
Comment removed. Banned.
Confirmed.
"Racist" - learn the difference between a state and a race.
Everybody calls the CCP the CCP. This is literally a "Nazis drink water" situation.
Death to the CCP. Death to all other fascist groups.
What coherent theory of fascism puts Nazi Germany and modern China in that same bucket? https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Fascism
Look no further than the capitalist class at the top of the CCP. Its imperialist initiatives. Its reactionary treatment of Muslims, LGBT people, etc.
Inb4 internal propaganda. Nazis say Jews got great swimming pools.
No idea what that’s supposed to mean, but let’s go through the bog-standard Five Eyes Kool Aid you’ve presented.
The capitalist class is not at the top of the CPC. China is a proletarian state, where the capitalist class is not in control: China's housing minister says real estate developers must go bankrupt if necessary. Whereas the US is a bourgeois state, where the capitalist class is in control.
The US Federal Reserve is just the cartel of the US private banks and they also largely control the Treasury. Whereas banking in China is predominantly state owned. The Chinese state both runs these banks and has fiat monetary sovereignty, so it’s not answerable to the capitalists. A bit of a tangent/background: Why The Government Has Infinite Money
What imperialist initiatives? The US has over 750 overseas bases around the world and is installing more right now in order to further encircle China. Meanwhile China has one anti-piracy base on the coast of Djibouti. https://lemmy.ml/comment/10148422
What reactionary treatment of Muslims? They get material support from the state just as other religions do, despite the CPC being formally atheist/agnostic. Their official position is that religions will eventually wither away on their own.
Or did you really mean Uyghurs? They and other ethic minorities were excepted from the One-Child policy, and in Xinjiang they have grown in numbers relative to Hans as a result.
I’ve beaten the “Uyghur genocide” (“cultural” or otherwise) psyop to death already: https://lemmy.ml/comment/10145782
I’m not very familiar with China’s current situation on this large topic. The US isn’t exactly a shining beacon on a hill here: been to Tennessee or Florida lately? Even the distorted stories we get US Cold War II think tanks and corporate media don’t put things anywhere near fascism. The US has a whole human rights concern troll industrial complex aimed at countries it wants to regime change.
What etcetera? You know what, here are answers to some of your next questions: https://lemmy.ml/comment/9448375
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Why The Government Has Infinite Money
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
gatt dayum dogg shut the fuck up. amerikkka is the global hegimon who bombed tens o million and razed half the globe. china is already sanctioned to shit but still gives out $$$ to poor ass countries. bruv you on a crusade for western interests lmao "anarchost". i guess the US state department is anarchy now innit? LMFAOOOO
Yup! I had a comment removed from lemmy.ml because I said something nice about the USA. I had another comment removed because I said something not nice about CCP.
What did you say?
According to moderators, even using the word "CCP" makes you a racist orientalist Nazi.
If that sounds like the neolib tactic of calling all criticism of Israel (or even the Netanyahu regime) "antisemitic" that's because it is.
That's not what they said, though, and that's not what you said either. I understand wanting to make your case, but you understated what got removed and overstated the reaction, which was just a removed comment and a 1 day ban for Orientalism.
You didn't critique the CPC either, unless you think calling for death is critique.
If you stalked my comment history, then you're being extremely selective and disingenuous, or very lazy.
"Death to Amerikkka" is not a critique either. But it is allowed by moderators. Do you condemn that equally?
A political party is not a race.
Death to the CCP.
To quote @davel@lemmy.ml : Reporter, please learn the difference between a people and a state.
Nah, I just checked the modlog against your name, I didn't stalk it.
I didn't say "Death to Amerikkka" is a critique, you said critiquing the CCP gets you removed, but you didn't critique the CPC as evidenced by the modlog. I think it was more cringe than anything.
So in worldnews, being cringe is bannable if it's against the CCP but not the US.
I also paraphrased an upvoted comment on this subreddit that calls people who call it the CCP a racist Nazi.
And you don't think orientalism (the real kind) is also racist? That's a weird nitpick you tried to employ.
No, I think trying to deliberately provoke mods is cringe.
Either way, you specifically equated racism to nazism, when I pointed out that you were specifically called racist, not a Nazi.
I do think you should call it the CPC, as calling it the CCP is Orientalist.
That’s enough trolling for today, which ironically was what this post was about.
Because Chinese Communist Party is language that puts an emphasis on the ethnic background, whereas Communist Party of China puts an emphasis on it being a party of the PRC.
How is "Nazi" an ethnic background?
And official literature calls the CPC the CPC.
Yep! Imo it’s the only way to beat trolls. If you suppress it, your still giving it attention and publicity. Your also playing into their game that they will claim you sensor truth.
Imo if you tell someone: “yeah, come to lemmy, voice your opinion. We won’t ban you but if we mostly disagree and ignore, clearly your idea was not with its salt”.