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this post was submitted on 25 Apr 2024
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You mean to fight the occupation?
Haha. Some fight. Millions of people living and dying in poverty and malnourishment so they could do a mass shooting of 1,300 people. They really showed em!
They have zero chance of fighting Israel and the only proper course for Hamas is an unconditional surrender and whatever peace terms Israel will grant them. They should be lucky to get the rights due prisoners of war. Usually you have to put yourself in a uniform to get those rights.
Hamas went all in hoping that once all of the other Muslim nations saw their merry slaughter of Jews, they would happily and immediately join in and attack Israel from all sides to complete the attempted genocide. They forgot about or chose to ignore a few things:
Israel has nukes and would use them if they felt fundamentally threatened, Israel has conventionally defeated every army that has ever attacked them (if sometimes by the skin of their teeth), has made reluctant, but reliable allies out of some of their former enemies and crippled others. Hamas didn't consider that Biden would protect Israel and fully commit to it, they kept the preparations for their attack so secret that only Tehran and Moscow knew about them, but crucially not Hezbollah (which ended up being muzzled by the American carrier groups anyway) and they gave nobody the necessary heads up for the months of buildup required for a full on war, because that would have given the whole thing away. While Hamas skillfully (with Russian and Iranian help) overcame the border defenses, they wasted the element of surprise on random carnage instead of overrunning the same airfields that have since been launching thousands of sorties that are, day by day, obliterating their organization.
And so on and so forth. The entire idea was foolish from the start and had no chance of success. Not that Moscow and Tehran expected any. They just used Hamas as pawns, hoping to weaken the US with this conflict. It's the standard zero sum game that autocrats love to play so much.
The Palestinian cause was already dying and it was only time before they were erased or expunged. What hamas did was revive that cause, even if you don't agree with them killing civilians (which i dont either). Most Palestinians were already living in terrible conditions and not because of hamas but because of the israel blockade of gaza. Which rendered it essentially to concentration camp.
The 1300 figure wasnt all by hamas. And from what we know so far about 300 were soliders, 300 were killed by israel themselves in the crossfire, and 300 were indeed civilians.
So far hamas has done pretty good for it self and has made some losses for israel. At the very least you can see its not a victory for israel.
Bud anyone that died in the chaos on October 7 was killed by Hamas. That's how criminal culpability works.
The blockade too was caused by Hamas and its ideological allies and predecessors. Every fucked up thing about Gaza in 2024 is traceable to poor decisions by their own leadership. They turned every public institution into instrumentalities of international terrorism. Hamas is the enemy. It's sad they have used psychotic interpretations of Islam to convince apparently significant portions of the Gazans public that Martyrdom™ is a civic duty, like where a legitimate state might have jury service or voting, but an evil, fanatical thing, not civic at all.
By your logic, Israel's government is just as culpable: https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
What a disgusting lack of knowledge of the areas history, wow
This is the reality no one wants to accept. Either surrender unconditionally, or be ethnically cleansed because it's clear the rest of the world's governments don't care.
Yeah, it's clear ethnic cleansing, God of Blood, only 2.06 million of 2.10 million Gazans are left!
Yeah, and we're 7.5 months into the war. Over all of WWII, the Nazis couldn't kill all of the Jews (and everyone else they were trying to kill) in Europe. Give it time. If they're allowed to keep this up, there will be a more complete ethnic cleansing.
...can you be more clear about what your comment means in reference to what I said?
"tunnels to commit terrorism from" is hardly objective. Terrorism is what oppressors call fighting for one's freedom, and Israel is invading territory which is not theirs, ergo, your comment appears to be cheering from the wrong side of history. The way your comment stands, it seems to end on a different sentiment than it starts off with.
Before I engage with a blatantly Pro-Hamas statement, please first explain how Hamas is fighting for the freedom for Palestinians, including women and LGBTQ citizens.
If unable, and you refuse to revise your Pro-Hamas stance, you will immediately be blocked.
An anti Israeli (Zionist) stance isn't equal to pro Hamas.
"Hamas was founded by Palestinian imam and activist Ahmed Yassin in 1987, after the outbreak of the First Intifada against the Israeli occupation."
The guy was literally stating what happens during an occupation.
The victors write history
Unless you are responding under a different account, I am going to give the original commentator a chance to respond and revise his statement.
Claiming that the modern political apparatus of Palestine are mere freedom fighters is a lie, and I will not engage with it.
No, not same person.
So in other words you're a Zionist?
GREAT! /s
Every action has a equal and opposite action. Eg you attack civvies you create 'terrorists' aka Hama's
Israel created a problem that allows them to syphon money from other countries for committing genocide
I believe both Jews and Palestinians deserve to live in their homeland. If that belief causes a few bad actors supporting Hamas to call me a Zionist as a slur, so be it.
Yet your only concern has been for Isreal, the ones doing a genocide.
Excuse us if we don't believe you at all
You don't know a thing about me or my beliefs and you have zero percent interest in knowing them. Pretending to have that knowledge is your goal here.
Pretty angry and defensive take when all I did was point out the behaviour you've had in this thread
The fact that you are accusing me unprovoked of being angry at you leads me to believe your intent in this dialog is to try and make me angry.
Perhaps in your mind anger is the correct response when somebody lies and misconstrues, but you are ignoring the fact that I expect that kind of behavior out of Pro-Hamas accounts.
Nah, homie, people going "you don't know me or my beliefs" are clearly upset at being called out on their behaviour online, thats why I said you're angry.
Still claiming people you don't agree with are pro-hamas? Pathetic.
Telling you your presumptions about me are wrong makes me angry?
I don't know, man, I think you are mistaken, but you can't be told nothing, so I guess just keep pretending your life away?
And I believe our dialog started because you took my anti-Hamas stance to mean I was pro-genocide. So I'm just mirroring your own behavior, which yes, I do agree has been pathetic.
No, but that's not what you did.
Interesting, as the only claim I made was that you've made exclusively pro-israeli comments in this thread. There's objective proof of that, so like, no?
*Anything. And I can be told whatever you want to say. Will I respect and accept it? Probably not.
No, it's when I pointed out that you'd only made pro-israeli comments while being as unfair as possible to the Palestinians.
Learn to read usernames or you'll look even dumber, dude
What specific comment of mine was "pro-Israel"?
I will wait.
@WamGams @n3m37h
I bet you a nickle the DNA of Palestinians matches that of the Jews. They are the same people, except for something something.
100%
If you mean that they are human as much as the Jews are, than yes.
But the idea that Palestinians are secret Jews by genetics is something that the Palestinian people would likely reject.
Religion is fucking man made anyways
I agree, but now let's get the Israelis and Palestinians to agree.
What does it matter if they have other political motives? The world is enabling their utter annihilation, children, babies, innocent people with no political ambition. That must be stopped before we wring our hands about what they might do with freedom. They are human beings, people with lives and families, not wild rabid animals.
The world isn't enabling a Palestinian annihilation. The world is working to resolve the conflict.
You guys need to stop pretending that you are the only good people and everybody else is evil. That's part of the issue here.
True, I shouldn't say the world, just major Western powers like the US and it's allies.
I am Canadian-American and haven't met a single person who likes genocide.
Maybe you hang out with different kinds of people in different parts of the world.
I guess you haven't met the defense contrators, weapons manufacturers and politicians who are rich because of wars and genocide. I haven't personally met many of them either, average people don't associate with those types.
If genocides were good for profits, every nation beholden to capitol would be engaging in them.
That's the issue with genocides for capitalists, by definition they have an end goal and thus a theoretical point in which the profits cease.
A genocide is probably better understood as an outflow of desperation on the behalf of corporatists.
True, I don't think pragmatic people in the arms industry would push for genocide, a more drawn out, even conflict would be better for their profits probably. But if there is one they can make money on they will, even if one side is eradicated and the fighting stops there are always other conflicts.
In the example of Israel, if they succeed in eradicating their current target (Palestine) there will be more enemies for them to fight, so they would still be a valuable client of Lockheed Martin et al.
I'm not yet convinced eradication is the final goal, though the aspect of desperation shown by Netanyahu certainly causes me to fear it could go that way.
You can look through the history of statements by the average Israeli politicians, military officials and pundits to get a sense of their goal, it can be deduced by their actions but they been more or less open about it for years. The political history of and statements by the Israeli minister of national security Itamar Ben-Gvir is a good example of the general zeitgeist of the political bloc in power in Israel.