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This goes out to my homies on the .ml instances!
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 26 Apr 2024
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Do you think the "9 fascists sitting at a table" argument is 'textbook fascist logic'?
No, that's just common sense. It's the tankie apologist/concern troll business. You seem to be comfortable labeling dissenters in a way that lumps them in with an out group even if there's no clear indication they are part of that group.
This is common fascist behavior, for example during the United States's McCarthy era. While persecuting leftists was the main goal, McCarthy and his cronies would also persecute anyone who objected, labeling them communist apologists or just communists themselves, ensuring their objections were disregarded.
Man, in this very thread the progression I'm bitching about happens with "There aren't any tankies!" comments.
"Leaves of three, leave it be" isn't a law, but it's quick advice. If you're out in the woods of Appalachia and see some ivy with three leaves, chances are it's Poison Ivy. "Generally posters claiming there aren't many tankies on the Fediverse are concern trolls" isn't a law, but it's quick advice. If, in the Fediverse, of all places, someone is not merely claiming to have personally not seen many tankies, but firmly saying (or implying through additional statements) that there aren't many tankies on here, they are generally a concern troll.
As for tankie apologists, I don't see why a tankie apologist should be regarded differently from a Nazi apologist, or any other fascist apologist. Ardent apologism by people not part of the in-group is a thing, and surprisingly common. Like atheists who praise Christians to high heaven (pun intended), or right-wing minorities playing "They're not that bad" games about the alt-right.
I don't understand people who comfortably deal in their own generalizations or absolutes. They're comforting because they're simple but they're rarely correct because they're colored by the random chance of your personal experience and your innate biases. This is why science education is so important: it teaches you that whichever observations you non-systemically generate are probably at least somewhat bullshit. They might make sense on a personal basis until you challenge the assumptions they're based on.
Your experience is entirely different than mine. I'm very active on Lemmy and I rarely see tankies as defined. Guess I'm a concern troll! Or am I a tankie apologist? I also see you calling others that don't meet your criteria concern trolls or tankie apologists. I guess we're all concern trolls, apologists, or whatever else you want to say we are so you can write off whole cloth anyone that disagrees with you. On the bright side, you proudly proclaim your biases and assumptions are facts, so it's easy enough to know it's probably best just to block you.
"You just want to write off anyone who disagrees with you!"
lmao
Sorry for not having a scientific study of Lemmy's population ready to satisfy you. It's funny - any time I bring receipts, regardless of how many or how upvoted, it's always the same story - "It's just a few bad apples! There's not a lot of them! They don't bother you!"
If you make a claim about tankies but never back but beyond the claim of personal experinece, then you at least owe it to yourself to understand that you may be wrong.
Alright, what exactly kind of evidence do you think is possible to gather in this situation? Realistically speaking? Am I to ignore my eyes and (metaphorical) ears because they aren't a scientific study?
Rigorous studies trump anecdotal evidence, but anecdotal evidence trumps a complete absence of evidence.
A collection of posts, perhaps already deleted and in the mod log? Any users you have personally seen and reported simping for China that the mods continue to have around anyway? Mod policies publicly making this okay? A meme page in love with toltalitarianism?
It doesn't have to be a scientific study... just any kind of evidence other than "trust me bro".
Don't ignore your eyes, but also don't be so damn pretentious. Show us what you are seeing.
If I got through the trouble of digging them up for the nth time, what will it take for you to admit that I have a point? Give me a rough number of examples and what criteria you need to accept them as legitimate. I've crawled through this shite too many times only for commenters to backpedal and say "Well, that's not upvoted enough/not in the right community/not enough examples" to go through it blind again.
You're generally honest in your arguments, at least insofar as we've interacted, but I really fucking despise wasting my time. So I do have to insist on you giving your criteria to accept the examples.
Give me a rough number and criteria, and I will gladly hop over and drag out whichever you want, the 'Sinophobia' bans and/or the assorted tankie bullshite.
Before I give any criteria, let's discuss this:
If you have dug them up N times, just paste them here? No? Just a whole dump of everything you got or an old comment would do.
Your reply implies I would readily dismiss the evidence... is there any reason you believe that?
You are wasting everyone else's time by making claims you can't back up. I am saying this as someone who hates any authoritarian regime and will do anything to avoid it becoming a reality. We both hate tankies.
Seems like lots of people in the comment section are also talking about what their eyes are seeing and it contradicts your claim. So whose eyes shall we trust?
From my limited and personal experience of the .ml instance, I don't see any of this happening, just lots of tankie-boogyman rhetoric. But my observations are not enough to make a conclusion. And neither are yours. That's why we need to back it up with evidence. Do you have any indication of any communities on .ml where the mods let this happen openly? If so, please link it.
Yeah, if I had a better search option for my ~7000 comment long comment history, that might be viable.
Yes. Because people are generally stubborn and reluctant to admit that they're wrong, or that their skepticism is wrong. And because I've done this song and dance numerous times before in which the person I was responded with 'No TRUE Scotsman'd their way into rejecting everything I gave them and demanding another dozen fucking examples.
Lots of people in this comment section are talking about the exact same thing - several people are discussing their personal experiences being banned or banned pre-emptively for going against tankie rhetoric. Are we reading the same fucking comment section?
https://ibb.co/zsbr6MW
https://ibb.co/TTbQDmb
https://ibb.co/JHM8357
https://ibb.co/CWkzC31
https://ibb.co/zsbr6MW
Thanks for the links. I will read them.
But man, fuck that tone of yours, it sucks.
Man, it takes ten fucking seconds of hitting 'search: local' to find out any of this shit, or listening to half the fucking commenters in this very thread. If you're expecting an asspatting tone in that context, you're out of fucking luck.
As I said, your tone sucks ass.
I am expecting a normal amount of decency. I understand it's hard when you assume EVERYONE is up against you. I would drop that of I were you.
So when you say .ml instances, you mean lemmygrad specifically? I am asking because my understanding is that .ml is just a domain extension.
So are you thinking that tankies are using .ml as some kind of code? Or do you mean specific instances that happen to share the .ml domain extension?
When I say ML instances, I mean both of them. If your question is about lemmy.ml specifically
https://lemmy.ml/comment/9357163
https://lemmy.ml/comment/3344278
https://lemmy.ml/comment/9361212
https://lemmy.ml/comment/3374274
https://lemmy.ml/comment/3041340
https://lemmy.ml/comment/2489986
Right okay. I was not aware that there are only two... and I think .ml is general use. If anything I thought it was short for machine learning, like .io is short for input/output.
I think there are only two.
.ml was the domain for the country of Mali. Still is, actually - there was even some light panic a few months ago when Mali started changing terms for usage of the domain. It was chosen for two reasons - one, because the domain was free at the time of Lemmy and Lemmygrad's founding, and two, because ml is also short for Marxist-Leninist.
I see! Thanks for explaining.
You are not going to like this...
Some of these are memes. Some ard discussions. I see the point in a few. Have you tried reporting them?
https://lemmy.ml/comment/3396945
https://lemmy.ml/comment/3671013
https://lemmy.ml/comment/3852561
https://lemmy.ml/comment/2122831
I don't know more you want. If effusive praise of Stalin (and quite clearly not in a sarcastic way; being light-hearted about white supremacy doesn't make 4chan suddenly a bastion of tolerance, for example) and denial of the Holodomor isn't enough to be a tankie, I really don't know what the fuck is.
I agree that some are good examples. I think some are exaggerated but I'll ignore those.
The overwhelming majority of them are from hexbear finding their way to lemmy.ml. I honestly gotta check who is defederated from who. If we defederate from lemmy.ml, we'd get rid of those but we would be losing a ton of content in communities where there are no insane extremists. What do you think what the best solution would be? I wonder if speaking to lemmy.ml mods about it could help.
The overwhelming majority of them are also very much upvoted, and the tankies ARE the mods themselves on many of the main political communities.
I'm not even advocating defederating from Lemmy.ml, unlike Lemmygrad, because I don't believe that Lemmy.ml brigades or is aggressively toxic towards other instances.
But that's not the same as saying they aren't infested with tankies, or run by tankies, because they very much are.
The only real solution is to be aware of the tankies in lemmy.ml.
Yeah the intro to that Tankie video that person you linked to had posted.... jesus.
I think your solution is reasonable and preferable to me tbh.