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Just First Past the Post voting things
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 02 May 2024
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Pretty much, but god youre eloquent! Im glad im not one of the ones trying to argue with u xD
I do remember r/sandersforpresident when it was good, and i do remember a lot of reddit leftist subs before they turned into "vooting bad!" and "heres the spoonfed opinions u must subscribe to if u want to be a Leftist TM."
And honestly, as for whats going on on lemmy, ur right that productive conversation gets drowned out, and the shills and their tankie followers tend to drag ppl down to the dregs whenever they try to debate them or are forced to call them out lest others take them seriously.
Its a brilliant tactic, too. Anyone remotely left leaning- shit, anyone morally sane, really- will look at the Gaza situation and feel for the downtrodden civilians being slaughtered and feel sympathy/take their side. The left is harder than the right to co-opt who will go for anything that tells them theyre better than the next guy so feel free to hate on XYZ, so theyre forced to co-opt the positions we already are bound to hold.
And ill end with ur daily reminder that actual leftists, like the Zapatistas in Spain who list it as a core tenet, will operate within the bounds of the system (not just outside of it) by voting for the option that most enables (or least obstructs) further mutual aid/direct action.
😃
Thank you! That's excellent
And yeah, the whole mindset is very much alien to actual leftist struggle. I get it. It's pretty discouraging if the police come and bear-spray you and arrest you because you're advocating for simple sanity in the system. At the same time, I imagine someone who was involved in struggle for civil rights or someone who's been an undocumented immigrant or something, saying: Yeah. That's what we're up against. If you're all of a sudden gonna get all discouraged about it like WELL IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE NICE THEN I REFUSE TO BE INVOLVED, I DON'T LIKE THIS... like bro what did you think was happening. The wrong people are in charge. That's what's up. Can we get busy on trying to change it? Inside or outside the system or both, or whatever seems like a good way to get rid of the crooks and get some better outcomes?
The whole "I refuse to engage with this broken system until something comes from above and makes the Democrats 'earn it' by being better all on their own, by magic" is a guaranteed win for all the worst outcomes and all the worst people, who will hurt a lot of people who don't have your luxury of deciding whether or not to involve with the system, and will make it exponentially more difficult to replace the Democrats with something better in the future.
Exactly!!
This is why i preach leftist solidarity. I get that neolibs are (very much) to the right of me. The tomes we align, however, need to be embraced. Any leftward movement is preferable to none at all. Any leftward movement shifts the overton window in the direction we want. We can worry about arguing when its relevant, not when we need to keep the literal fascist out of office. In general, claiming someone like status quo joe to be a fascist is a hell of a privileged position to hold. Fascists want the outright eradication of some sort of undesirable group and an outright rejection of electoralism or democracy in all its forms, quite unlike status quo joe.