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Why Would He Help Putin?
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 05 May 2024
1737 points (98.6% liked)
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But a disturbing amount of Lemmy is ready and willing to risk making him President because of one issue that Trump would also do nothing to fix.
*Because of one issue that Trump explicitly said he would do much much worse with
I'll never fucking understand it. They claim to care, but he will be substantially worse, and also make their lives directly worse on top of it.
I get it. Nobody wants to actively vote for a guy supporting genocide. But they need to grow up and realize that if they can't make a good choice, they need to make the better choice, no matter how much it sucks that we're at this point.
One supports it (probably because he can't please everyone)
The other would gleefully assist in the genocide
I think Biden would please a lot more people if he just didn't pick a side. Nobody I talk to, no matter where on the political spectrum they land, likes him supporting Israel.
I haven’t heard about this in YEARS but wasn’t there something about us having to support Israel to have a friend in the Middle East?
Also why haven’t I heard about that in years 🤔
(For the record, I’m pro-no-more-dead-kids, and anti-famine.)
I'm not sure if you mean on main stream news or not but I see that sentiment here daily
Might need to spend more time on politicalmemes then!
Referred to anywhere actually, should’ve mentioned I haven’t been specifically seeking news from the Middle East.
Sadly the side was chosen before he was even VP. The U.S. has been sending money and weapons for decades.
Then you're in a political bubble.
Biden is already assisting it.
And "he can't please everyone" is not a good excuse for it.
Supporting genocide is not a matter of "growing up".
Dems have reached the end of the "lesser of two evils" strategy. It turns out literal genocide is the point at which people no longer respond that rhetoric, weird huh?
So what's your solution?
For Biden to stop supporting genocide. If you want him to win the election that's the fastest and most direct solution. It's not a difficult ask.
If you don't want to actively vote for a guy supporting genocide, then exercise your right to not do that by picking a third party candidate that best aligns with your interests and vote for them. Disparaging the people whose votes you absolutely have to have isn't going to persuade them to vote for the person you're voting for. Just makes you look silly.
There is no "worse" than full on, reigns free, genocide. Biden isn't just doing nothing he's supplying the genocide. The only way it could be worse is if US troops were activated to help.
It's a bullshit talking point to pretend Trump could do worse on this issue (especially since it is never accompanied with any specifics about how he'd be worse on this issue). Biden is full genocide support, you might not like hearing that and knowing your vote will serve as an endorsement for continued Democratic complicity in genocide, but that's what it is and is exactly why people simply cannot support Biden without him taking action to reverse his course.
You might be willing to excuse it, many aren't, especially those who have literal family members being killed by US bombs right now. There are no rhetorical gymnastics that make it ok.
Hahaha! Jesus fucking christ, what are you, twelve? Was the first illegitimate trump administration happening while you learned colors and letters? You have got to be fucking joking with this garbage. Nobody can give specifics on how he’d be worse! HAH! For fuck’s sake. If you’re not from America, ok, but otherwise - please. There have been many cogent arguments as to how he’d be worse - do you need help finding them? Are you actually, in good faith, asking? Because I doubt it. And if it’s even a question to you whether trump can manage a competent foreign relations situation, you’re either being disingenuous or comically ignorant.
If you were arguing in good faith you'd be able to at least comprehend why people find it difficult to put their name on a genocide.
The more hysterical you get, the more you just look like an out of touch fanatic who's so jaded that you can't even grasp why people would have a problem giving the Democrats permission to be a party that behaves like the GOP in the very worst way imaginable.
No amount of talking down or being condescending will get you what you want. Use that energy to pressure your representatives.
What? You said,
Which is laughable. Jaded, may be, but not as credulous and ignorant as to think trump would improve the situation in Gaza. Or - maybe you’re just repeating the GRU talking points as directed. I dunno. They’re just coincidentally the same talking points. Biden is the worst ever, trump would do better.
Since you’ve made no effort to discuss anything, we’ll wrap it up then. Good luck with whatever country you’re in.
Even if that were true (it's not) acting like that's the only issue on the table is absurd. Trump will be worse not just when it comes to Palestine, but all around.
It’s the Bernie Bros all over again. No need to bother they’re almost as cultish as maga
It's #walkaway all over again.
Sad how shortsighted we as a nation have become
Nailed it.
Seems to be the best argument they can come up with... As if 4% voting third party would make a difference except to help elect a full on fascist
Aye, there’s the rub
You guys should really think about changing your voting system.
Our voting uses something called a Single Transferable Vote. You can rank candidates in order of preference - last place gets eliminated and any votes they got are instead transferred to each voters' next preference. Repeat until there's only one left.
It cuts out most of the stupid games and you get to see people's positions more honestly.
In this case it'd let people vote for an anti genocide candidate and still indicate that they'd prefer Biden over Trump.
Lmao -- ooooohhhh why didn't we think of that!
Just snap our fingers and change the system!
You can't just snap your fingers, but you could try to get ranked choice voting approved locally, which would make it easier to get it state wide which would make it easier to get it federally.
My city just passed that if no candidate gets at least 50% they drop the lowest voted people and everyone votes again. It's not perfect, but it's progress!!
In many red states, republiQans are passing laws to specifically prevent this change.
We have to vote them out first, and that is unfortunately under the FPTP system. After that, we have to save the planet and restore women’s bodily autonomy. Then we have to kill the Slaver’s College. then we can get to ranked choice. It’s a full slate.
The year Trudeau first ran he talked a big game. The Conservative party was unpopular after being in power for a decade and the NDP and Greens were in the best shape they'd been in for quite a while and for the first time it seemed like anybody's game. The NDP/Greens with McNair and May respectively spoke eloquently about the need for representive voting systems and Trudeau on national television during debate made it an election promise for the Liberal party he represented (Liberal here is a brand though the party is pretty generally pretty lower case liberal as well). When he got in despite the support of those other parties it never materialized.
Here in British Columbia trying to capitalize on the sentiments the Provincial government ran a lame horse of a referendum campaign where they brought forward three really complicated systems that largely dealt with how ridings were weighted by representation which was better than nothing but because it took two hours to explain how the three systems worked most people checked out of it and voted for first past the post to remain. It was like it was constructed by acedemics who had never spoken to a person before. They didn't need a referendum. They could have just passed something, any of the three options and we would be better off than we were.
I have remained salty about this since 2017.
Understandably!
Same. I don't think think I've liberal since.
This is not a system where institutional changes have much chance of occurring, especially where "tradition" is involved.
Half of the voting population is against anything resembling reform or progress, and only "for" regressive draconian changes. The other half has such a broad difference of opinion on what should be addressed first that they waste their time squabbling about it even when they have control of the executive branch and both parts of the legislative branch. When they do make changes, they make so many compromises and concessions that the changes are effectively small.
Single Transferable Vote, Preference Vote, basically anything works better than FPTP.
This is something that could be fixed at a state level no less, since the states run the elections subject to a handful of federal requirements none of which mandate FPTP voting.
I haven't seen a single person say they'll vote for Trump because of the genocide in Gaza. I'm sure they exist, I just haven't seen it yet...
It's not about those voting for him, they're a lost cause.
It's the fact that if you don't vote for Biden, based on the current options and possible outcomes available, you are saying that you're okay with Trump beating him.
US elections basically come down to turnout of Democrat voters.
The GOP has baked in voting as a civic duty and party loyalty as core values, so GOP votes mostly change one casket at a time.
Dem voters are a lot more flighty, and a lot more willing to refuse to vote or vote third party if the Dem candidate isn't everything they want. There are more Dem voters than GOP voters, but fewer of them actually vote in any given election.
Which means that GOP turnout is pretty stable and Dem turnout is all over the place.
A big part of why Trump lost in 2020 is that Dem messaging was all about inspiring terror in their own voters that Trump might win again, so get your asses out and vote or else! Same as now, and it might hold as a tactic until there's a GOP candidate they can't successfully work the fear angle on, and then the GOP will win and if the US isn't destroyed in the ensuing four years Dems will have a hard time winning again until they find a new tactic.
Correction: trum claimed he would fix that issue. By basically eradicating Gaza, but still...
Constituents don't have many cards they're allowed to hold. So the ones we can, we will clutch with a death grip.
Some of us refuse to let anyone know who we vote for until the pen meets the paper. Because the President is supposed to work for the people, so we'll make them work for it as long as we can.
That's great.
I'm talking about the people specifically saying they will not vote for Biden.
Those are likely Russian trolls or those who drank the trolls' piss-saturated Kool-aid, hun. You can't expect them to have sound reasoning.
And? I'm saying I'm disturbed by the volume of them, hun.
That would be something Biden is risking.
Nice obvious troll my man but you gotta put in a little more effort.
I'm not even sure it's nice? Wasn't funny and really not even poignant. I give it 1/10.
It's not a troll, Biden is the incumbent but he still needs to take the actions needed to turn out the vote. It's not a given that he's electable.
See parent comment of this thread.
Nah, I'd imagine he's also voting Democrat.