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A bit late
(lemmy.blahaj.zone)
"b-but bears are actually dangerous!" Shut the hell up.
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this post was submitted on 11 May 2024
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Shame is an individual thing. Men, plural, is a whole bunch of people. Why should I be ashamed for the actions of people that aren't me?
...and just to be clear here: I'm not even arguing that we shouldn't battle this one out between the genders. But collective punishment is against the Geneva convention and I really don't like to stay quiet when people commit war crimes.
So my initial response was "jesus fuck that's some unnecessary hyperbole, I get your point but that's ridiculous"
And then I realized that's the same response I have with women who pick the bear so
I dunno
Maybe you all suck?
Maybe we all care about things you don't care about?
Or maybe hyperbole is not the best way to make a point?
It depends. Largely on whether it's obvious that it's hyperbole.
Though as far as the gender war is actually a war I still think that the Geneva convention should definitely apply. By, you know, analogy.
I guess I could see what you were going for there, but it was a bit of a stretch imo
Wait sorry I just read your comment, who the fuck said war crimes? You should be ashamed of your peers if they're misogynistic, whats a war crime there lmfao
Me. I said war crimes. Collective punishment is a war crime. You cannot hold people to account on the basis of group membership.
If you want to make a sensible statement, try "You should be ashamed if you don't distance yourself from misogynists". In that case you say someone should be ashamed for their own actions (or inaction), not for something some amorphous group did. Also changing the general "men" to "your peers" is peak goalpost moving.
I dont know what you think my goal is, clearly you're better at phrasing, so if we go with "You should be ashamed if you don't distance yourself from misogynists", where is our disagreement?
You think I shouldnt be ashamed of the friends I once had? Because I certainly am. You should be ashamed of people who break social contract, because that is explicitly what that would entail.
Given that you said "once had" not "still have", no I don't think you should be ashamed. Having broken with them, having learned, what blame is there that could be laid on you?
Because I was once naïve to who they are now, and perhaps being younger at the time I could have, maybe, been a more potent guiding voice to a couple guys in specific, and only later did I learn what they had committed when I was still associated. And if that shame is a way I can guarantee my merrits, then I can live with it.
Is that shame necessary to guarantee your merits, though?
If you can still learn from it, then it still has a purpose. If everything is learned, then it doesn't, and it is only hindering you. That call will be up to you, your understanding of the circumstances, and your conscience, but one thing is for sure: It makes no sense to worry about things that are outside of your control, and your past is very much among the things not in your control. So don't fret about letting it be nothing to you.
That's exactly the war crime mentioned before. How is that different from blaming every german for being from the same country as nazis?
Edit: The nazi analogy was just me trying to find an example that even a moron could understand.
... I failed miserably
Godwin's Law
Ignoring Godwin's law isn't the argument ender you think it is, fine, how is it different than blaming all black people for violent gang crime?
Lmfao, being socially ashamed of the peers you choose to associate with === being a German during the nuremburg trials?? You know what was probably 110% worse? Being Jewish in Nazi occupied territory.
Get a goddamn grip on reality. If I had said ship all men tp Australia sure, my apologizes my original phrasing didn't appease you enough. Professional victimhood at its finest.
Im sorry you got rejected one too many times, hope you can figure it out.
Yeah they just wanted to throw random shit out - like women picking the bear is a war crime because it punishes all men. I think they want women to choose to take the risk of potentially gambling their life away AND be raped / kidnapped, they shouldn't just be able to risk a life threatening mauling because that would punish all men.....
jfc the gymnastics these fucks will go in order to deny that rape and kidnap are genuinely things men do, and have historically done to the point where women literally have to carry the stress of self defense 24/7 and even worse, their most frequent assailants are known.
SO FUCK YEAH BRING ON THE BEAR, they probably don't know them personally so that'll up the odds that the bear will just ignore them. And even if the bear kills them brutally, it's not going to rape them, so they got that going. But it's a war crime to pick the bear jfc
Not what I said. Demanding that I feel ashamed because there's men who do shitty things is the collective punishment, the war crime.
Have you ever considered that there's humans who do shitty things? Why aren't you ashamed of that? Why are you shirking responsibility? Are you secretly in league with them? Why are you not experiencing crippling guilt, knowing that Hitler and Pol Pot exist and are of your group, as I just randomly assigned it? Why aren't you flagellating yourself yet?
Yes, the statement is hyperbolic -- obviously. But you should be able to see how the general pattern, not just its extreme, is toxic.
where did I do that? seriously, point out where I told you to feel ashamed.
Never did. Are you a rapist? then you have nothing to worry about.
You're hyperbole is pointless. I don't feel guilt for hitler and polpot because I'm not a racist genocidal maniac.
So what's the root of your guilt mate?
Past coming back to haunt you? If not, pick team bear dude, it's the logical choice.
You didn't, someone else did and that's where I brought up the whole collective punishment being a war crime thing. Simply wanted to set the record straight on what it was a reference to.
Well, two decades ago I did engage in gang-tickling of gals. Nope I'm not sorry, they're not traumatised, also I got a date out of it but I can definitely see how some people would like to tie a noose from that one.
Would you choose the bear, the guy with downcast eyes boiling with repressed rage, or the one pushing you into the swimming pool while you test the temperature?
Never got good at stealing scrunchies, I'll have to pass on that one. And don't tell me only guys do that kind of thing I once had to fish my home keys out of panties.
what the fuck are you on about?
scrunchies?
go back to middle school you child
Oh I'm definitely grownup.
Ah well there's that pesky language thing, I do mean individually, if I intended carrying the burden of sins of all my fathers I would be weighed down to hell.
Edit: Actually, I don't mean individually, if you have a friend that you tolerate some of their more misogynistic views, try to actually be the better influence, Ive failed some former friends in that regard, and they will fall deeper into that pit.
Edit edit: some nice upstanding men here, you wouldnt hold your friend accountable to SA?
I don't have misogynistic friends for the simple reason that I don't make friends with assholes.
What a gotcha, im sure you never got to know someone well enough their true colors start to show? Because from my experience, they know to hide their true intentions because it tends to push people away. And thats when you cut them out. Whats so complicated?
Ok ok, let me understand you:
So... Are you a sexist incel? Why should men respect your feelings or validate your past experiences then? Stop trying to solve sexism with more sexism, it doesn't work like that. And please don't disrespect me or assume shit from my personal life amymore, it's just lame.
Where the fuck did you come from? It aint my fault some men are sensitive and cant just ignore comments online lol
They want confirmation, acknowledgement, so the second a tastefully edgy joke is cracked their true colours are going to come flying because they'll say something that's just offensive, not actually funny.