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Centrists gonna centrist...
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 14 May 2024
312 points (80.1% liked)
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If someone's mindset is such that it's unnecessary to talk about what actions a politician has taken when deciding whether to vote for them, I'm comfortable with not being able to appeal to that person.
Honestly my goal isn't to "get" anyone to do anything. I am trying to communicate the reality I see in front of me. Obviously I hope that that will produce a result and a better outcome in the real world, if the reality I see seems compelling to someone else as a useful model, but I'm not into the idea of trying to move away from "this is how I see it and why" and into something else, to try to engineer a stated result in some other person. They can make their own decisions, as can you.
What are fascist things that Biden has done? How has he moved the needle towards fascism? Maybe this is where some of the disconnect between our views on him comes from.
That wasn't the point, though. It's necessary to look at the actions a politician has taken. The fact that you believe it necessary to "uhmm, akshually" someone who has expressed disapproval of Biden from the left is condescending and counterproductive.
As for the fascist and fasc-adjacent things Biden has done, there are quite a few. Enabling and funding a genocide, labeling protestors as anti-semetic, further entrenching US Imperialism, building Nationalism, and more have resulted in continued cancerous growth of fascists domestically.
In addition to overt actions, it's important to look at what causes fascism itself. Fascism is Capitalism in decline, a violent assertion of Capital. As the head of state, failing to push back against Capitalism is also failing to push back against it's decline, and thus is why I say voting for Biden is slow fascism rather than rapid fascism.
The US will inevitably continue down the train of fascism until derailed, which is accomplished via outside pressure. Voting for Biden buys time, but does not prevent fascism.
Forgot about the crime bill and like most of his pre-presidential actions, can't forget about those
You literally told me that my message listing actions Biden has taken was unnecessary.
Can I do this too? If someone posts a message I disagree with, can I say they're punching me, and silencing dissent, and "uhmm, askhusally"ing my message, and counterproductive?
Dude. I disagree with you. It's allowed. Stop trying to imply that it isn't, and either engage with what I'm saying, or don't. It seems like you finally are engaging now, so maybe it's late for me to be saying that, but it's just irritating me that you're trying to find so big a variety of words to use to imply that I shouldn't be allowed to say a viewpoint you don't agree with.
Quick unrelated question: What's your feeling on the war in Ukraine?
What would be a good end state, to you? Like what would be a good American system, if you had the perfect politicians in office and could set up the economy and the structure of government exactly as you wanted?
People do not need to hear from you to know what Biden has done. You can discuss individual actions, sure, but you provided a list you believed was good for the purposes of showing why you believe Biden is good.
You can disagree, I just find it condescending that you seem to imply you see things others aren't.
As for Ukraine, what specifically are you asking? Do you think opposing US imperialism must mean I support Russia, or something? My "feeling" is that war is bad and unjustifiable. Violence is purely justified against oppressors. I believe in Nation's right to self-determination.
I want Socialism, and eventually, Communism. Worker ownership of the Means of Production. Democracy of, by, and for the Proletariat. Do you have any specific questions? We could be here all day otherwise and I am not sure there would be a point.
Okay, so it's not punching left or silencing dissent if I disagree? Just want to get that clarified. You can call me condescending, that's fine; I probably am.
Should the US send weapons to them? Or is that more imperialism? I am just curious; you brought up imperialism, so I'm curious what that means.
I'm just curious about what your viewpoint is. Not sure why that's a problem when arguing back and forth with hostility wasn't, but you can stop any time, if you don't like it.
What's a country which has implemented the model you'd like to see in the US? Or would this be the US doing it for the first time that it's been implemented on a big scale in the way you'd like to see it implemented?