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this post was submitted on 21 May 2024
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I want to point out a key distinction that you successfully made here. Individual Israelis have a right to defend themselves. I, personally, do not recognize the state of Israel nor its supposed right to self-defense.
You recognizing the state of Israel does nothing to change the fact that they exist and have the right to defend themselves from terrorists.
You aren't personally offering to house 8 million Jews as a way to entice them to leave their current location and nobody else is either, therefore, 8 million Jews are in Israel and have a formed government to protect themselves with.
If the goal is piece, which I think we agree it is, denying Jews a homeland is counter productive to those goals. Try bringing credible paths forward.
No, that is absolutely not what I meant. Israelis have a right to form a government, and that government is right to protect its citizens (that is not what it's doing right now).
You did make me change the second part from "has a right" to "is right to", which is interesting.
Palestinians should also have a right to form a government. If I say they have a right to protect their citizens, that likely means war and genocide. I'd hope that if the Palestinians form a government and a state, they realize that they lose the war and decide that peace is in their best interests.
Either way, the full on genocide needs to stop. Whether I think the Gazans are murderous, religious zealots or not*, they're still human. They deserve aid. Israel's blocking of aid should have been enough that we pull support. Maybe we did behind the scenes, who knows. We shouldn't be funding Israel (or Northern Virginia, really), as much as we do. I don't think Israel collapses without US munitions, certainly not to Palestine. Defending them from Iran is fine (which is also not what we're doing).
Palestinians don't want peace. Israelis don't want peace. What the fuck are we supposed to do about it? We can try to limit the damage in the short term (and we should), but I don't have long term solutions, and I don't think anyone else does either.
*(I understand they have reason to be. But is wanting to murder an entire people ever justified?)
The previous person already said you should back that statement up. And then you repeat it again.