343
RFK Jr Rejected by Libertarians After They Loudly Booed, Heckled Trump
(www.commondreams.org)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 26 May 2024
343 points (97.8% liked)
politics
19107 readers
1984 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
What question did I dodge? I answered that. Wait. You think there are left wing fascists? I mean it would fit with redefining left-wing Libertarians to be right wing I suppose. So I shouldn't be shocked. Even though fascism is defined and accepted as being a right wing ideology.
I don’t think they’re either. Fascists fall under the bottom left quadrant of the Nolan Chart for supporting liberal economic and conservative social systems. Libertarians are placed opposite them on the top right. Left wing on the top left for liberal social and liberal economic, and right wing on the bottom right for conservative social and conservative economic.
My point is if you place them on the right of a straight line, you’re defining your line to weigh on social policy over economic policy. Therefore you must place Libertarians on the far left, despite their staunch objection to tax generated social systems. A line simply doesn’t work.
So first things first. Nolan was a liberal, despite calling himself libertarian. Liberal == economic freedom, libertarian == social freedom. Always has been. Always will be. Second I was not aware that the Nazis were liberal and supported economic freedom. Honestly everything I've seen historically screamed the opposite. You know, the whole if you aren't with us we kill you. Not a socially or economically "liberal" vibe. But I'd be interested to see what your justification for the claim is.
Why would you not weight social Freedom over economic freedom? Society is the basis of the economy. Who in their right mind would prioritize economic freedom over social freedom? Who would want prioritize being the wealthiest inmate in a concentration camp for instance. over being free but having wealth similar to everyone else?
Let's put this in better perspective. The transition from mercantilism to capitalism. Capitalism provided zero new economic freedom. There were immensely wealthy non royals that owned trading companies. But they were socially segregated from the royals and could never become them outside of marriage which was also segregated. Capitalism offered new social freedom, now us low born could become the equivalent of the royals based largely on dumb luck and chance. The change was strictly about social freedom. As surpurfluous and damaging as that particular freedom was.
Finally there is no meaningful economic freedom without social freedom. Without social Freedom you will be permanently segregated from economic success. Black people and minorities for example in the United States technically have access to economic freedom. And yet it is always such a noteworthy thing anytime one of them actually becomes economically successful. Because they generally do not have the social freedom.
Liberal economic policy means they support high tax socialization. Hitler socialized much of Germany’s industry, and is responsible for the creation of Volkswagen. Conservative economics support low tax socialization.
As far as weight of social freedom vs. economic support goes, that’s entirely up to the individual. Plenty of people cast their votes with economic priorities- the elderly, Conservatives (not MAGA or far-right), and people on social programs such as Section 8, Medicaid, or SNAP to name a few.
Capitalism is a form of economy that in no way dictates social legislation. We base social legislation (liberty or restrictions on acceptable behavior) on The Constitution and its Amendments. The policies are independent of one another.
Read up on the Political Compass if you don’t like the Nolan chart. They accomplish the same goal of identifying independence of social and economic systems in relation to political ideology.
Economic policy is on a spectrum from liberal (high tax socialization) to conservative (low tax socialization). High taxation with low socialization falls under conservative.
Social policy is on a spectrum from libertarian (freedom from socially restrictive legislation) to authoritarian (oppressive socially restrictive legislation).
The use of the term libertarian here is not to be confused with the Libertarian ideology or party, as it’s being used to exclusively define social liberty, and does not include economic policy definition. The same is true of the use of liberal vs Liberal in regards to economic policy.