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submitted 4 months ago by ylai@lemmy.ml to c/programming@programming.dev
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[-] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 114 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Note that this is failure to deliver on time, not failure to deliver full stop.

I also think a lot of places claim to be agile, but don't follow or understand the principles at all. Another commenter here is the perfect example of that where they say the opposite of what's in the agile manifesto and claim that it's a representation of what it says.

Maybe that's a fundamental problem with agile. It's just a set of loose principles rather than a concrete methodology being pushed for by a company and it has therefore been bastardised by consulting companies and scrum masters claiming to teach the checklist of practices that will make your company agile. Such a checklist does not exist, it's just a set of ideas to keep in mind while you work out the detailed processes or lack thereof that work for you.

For anyone that wants to refresh their memory on the agile manifesto:

Individuals and interactions over processes and tools

Working software over comprehensive documentation

Customer collaboration over contract negotiation

Responding to change over following a plan

That is, while there is value in the items on the right, we value the items on the left more.

[-] tyler@programming.dev 23 points 4 months ago

Agile was designed for contractors to deliver contract work. It’s a terrible design for any sort of sustainable business plan, hence “working software over comprehensive documentation”. That line right there causes the majority of outages you as a consumer encounter.

[-] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 19 points 4 months ago

Would you rather have working software or a bunch of documentation? If your software is having outages then by definition it is not working. If documentation is the root cause of that then you should fix that by creating enough documentation to allow your software to continue to work per "working software over comprehensive documentation". Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see the contradiction here.

[-] becausechemistry@lemm.ee 43 points 4 months ago
  1. Hack together a proof of concept
  2. Works well enough that management slaps a “done” sticker on it
  3. Pile of hacks becomes load bearing
  4. One or two dependencies change, the whole thing falls over
  5. Set evenings and weekends on fire to fix it
  6. Management brags about moving fast and breaking things, engineers quit and become cabbage farmers and woodworkers
  7. New graduates are hired, GOTO 1
[-] GBU_28@lemm.ee 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

If 2 and 3 happen the game is up. Management killed it.

That's not agiles fault.

[-] 0x0@programming.dev 5 points 4 months ago

Surely you're not gonna blame the manager.... /s

[-] tyler@programming.dev 1 points 4 months ago

But that’s what agile sounds like to management. They don’t understand the “it’s held together by hopes and dreams” communication, because all they see is something that appears to work. So why would they invest anything else in it.

[-] mctoasterson@reddthat.com 6 points 4 months ago

This is the most accurate description of anything that's ever been written.

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this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
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